this is quite a challenge, for me anyway...

[W K Clifford]

[k morita]

Hi,

Wow, " Murasame" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[W K Clifford]

what does it mean?

[k morita]

Hi,

Murasame-maru is a sword of Muramasa that appears in the novel on the end of Edo period. :lol:

Can we see the blade?

[george trotter]

An interesting inscription...maybe the maker's name has been cut off, but if I read this correctly, the untranslated portion says

IKOMA SANUKI (no) KAMI SHOJI (suru)...(Made) to be carried by Ikoma, Lord of Sanuki Province.

It would indeed be interesting to see the blade and fittings if this is possible?

Regards,

George.

[W K Clifford]

so does this mean, having the name of a fictional swordsmith inscribed on the nakago? (as you can see the condition of the sword is not very good)

 

[k morita]

Thank you for sharing the photographs.

Nickname's such as Murasame sword is doubted among the swords collectors in Japan.

(Nickname named " Murasame" is too famous in Japan.)

You should open the window of the sword by about two inches of the blade by a professional polisher.

[W K Clifford]

interesting. doubted in what way? since, for instance, in the case of this sword, it was obviously not made by Muramasa, what's the purpose of such a fictional inscription. i mean, the mei is supposed to use to fool someone, right? but in what way?

[W K Clifford]

there is also the testimonial on the other side:

 

 

 

fake?

[k morita]

yimu,

So, I wrote the following.

"You should open the window of the sword about two inches of the blade by a professional polisher".

[outlier48]

Yimu,

 

Before you have a professional polisher "open a window" on this sword, can you please try to enhance the kanji in the last photo by using talcum powder to "highlight" the kanji. I cannot see these characters clearly but they seem to be related to date and smith/province.

 

FWIW, I hope you will take Morita-san's advice.

 

Looking forward to a better photo.

 

Charlie Brashear

[W K Clifford]

many thanks for all your responses, especially for those of Morita san's

 

a brief research shows that this blade is more on the fishy side. the reason is as follows. there are only two 讚岐守 with the last name 生駒, and both of them were in the early Edo period. however this inscribed fictional name only appeared shortly before the Meiji reform. So the inscription was retroactive? that would be eve more unusual.

 

make sense?

[Nobody]

I also think that the inscription is doubtful. However; it is difficult to conclude so at the moment logically because of the following reasons.

 

1. The last Ikoma Sanuki no kami (生駒讃岐守) was Ikoma Chikayuki (生駒親敬), who got the title in 1868. (Ref. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F% ... A%E6%95%AC )

 

2. The inscription might say that the sword WAS possessed by Ikoma Sanuki no kami (of eary Edo period) to record its history.

 

3. Murasame-maru (村雨丸) is a fictitious sword appears in a novel of late Edo period (Nanso Satomi Hakkenden; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nans%C5%8D ... _Hakkenden ) as Morita-san already said. But it has nothing to do with Muramasa even in the story, AFAIK.

 

 

The inscriptions on the other side are date and Setsudan-mei.

BTW, I found that one sword made by Sukehiro has a nickname “Murasame (村雨)”. The sword is Tokubetsu Juyo.

[W K Clifford]

The Yamano cutting test result basically says two bodies were cut on 寬文五年十二月二十五日 (Xmas!) and the tester was 永繼.

 

Isn't it a bit odd that these were carved on the nakago instead of written on it (in golden ink)?

[george trotter]

I obviously misunderstood you Yimu,

When you posted a nakago pic under the heading "this is quite a challenge, for me anyway..." it seemed natural to me that you were asking for help reading the inscription meaning. I can see now you already knew the meaning except for the hiragana portion... and you also knew the bodies, name and date on the other side. Silly me, sorry for wasting your time.

Regards,

George.

[W K Clifford]

Hi George, thank you for trying to help. Yeah, i can read one side of the nakago but not the other. Thanks to Morita-san, i now can read both.

[reinhard]

Yimu, let's waste some more time. The mei on your sword looks like a pretty poor promo-stunt, but I won't tell you why. You have to find out by yourself since you seem to know enough about Japanese swords already. As you probably know, the Ikoma in Sanuki possessed some very fine and famous swords and quite a few were marked with "Ikoma Sanuki-no-Kami". Here's a pic of a kinzogan-mei on a real sword from the Ikoma-collection (presently in the possession of the Kurogawa institute). Can you see the difference?

 

reinhard

[reinhard]

I forgot to mention: What does it mean when the extension of the shinogi into the nakago looks like this? See the area around "Murasame". It's a textbook-example of .....?

 

reinhard

[W K Clifford]

Thank you for the wonderful remarks, Reinhard. Where did you get the picture? I have been wondering where those resourceful members of this forum get their references from. Googling does not seem to be the trick...

 

my knowledge on nihonto is rather poor. So that nakago is a textbook example of what, if you do not mind my asking?

[k morita]

yimu,

The carving (Ikoma Sanuki no Kami shoji)of your sword is very similar to gold inlaying on national treasure sword Ikoma Mitsutada.

However, this gold inlay was inlaid by Honami.

So,i believe that the carving (Ikoma Sanuki no Kami shoji) is a copy.

[Tsugio Kawakami]

Something was removed...

[reinhard]

  Tsugio Kawakami said:

Something was removed...

 

That's it.

 

reinhard

[Grey Doffin]

I believe what Reinhard is referring to is the curve of the shinogi away from the ha between the 2 mekugi-ana. This isn't right and probably happened sometime after the original shortening. Perhaps a different mei was filed away?

Grey

[W K Clifford]

that would be my answer too. Is it right, Reinhard?

[Jean]

Sinuous shinogi

[Thekirsh]

Well someone liked it

Sold - $500

 

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7839944

 

Simon

[Mark]

I am probably crazy but i thought i would take a chance. I bought it, now maybe i can figure out what it is

[W K Clifford]

wow, Mark, you are a brave man. Did you examine the blade itself before bidding?

[Mark]

Yes, i looked it over in hand. it is 27" quite wide, intersting activity in boshi and monouchi. The rust is an issue, hard to say how it will turn out, but the blade is quite wide and the temper is wide so maybe it can take a polish. The cutting test seems reasonably well cut, the grass script on the other side does not look that good (as was noted in this thread), but it can always be removed. Overall i was happy to get it, especially at that price, a few other people who examined it but did not attend the auction were suprised it went so cheap, one advanced collector said he did not attend as he expected it would go over 2k at auction and he was onlt willing to go $1000-1200.

[Mark]

YimuYin

 

by the way, i was in Pittsburg Thur - Sat Were you at the show? Maybe we meet and did not know it