Menuki,how are they rated???

[Lindus]

Apart from the obvious in quality, is there a rating system similar to Tsuba and blades?.

 

The two below are mounted on sam'e, quite worn but look as though in their day they were probably quite cleverly made,is it easy to ID school, does not seem much written on the sibject.

 

Just interested, no panick if your having a BBQ or off surfing

 

Thanks

 

Roy

[Jean]

With the Naginata, could be Benkei and his master

[Mark Green]

I would say that is very likely.

[Pete Klein]

As in all things Nihon-To menuki do fall into maker/groups and levels of design/fabrication sophistication. Papers (origami) are issued reflecting the maker attribution and quality evaluation of the governing body issuing. A baic breakdown of group/makers would be Tachi Kanagushi (menuki made for tachi and probably the earliest), Aizu (menuki made by repousse' with gold wash surface), Ko Goto, Goto, Kyo Goto, Kaga Goto or by specific attribution/mei to a family member of the Goto family, Ko Mino or Mino (none signed), Ko Kinko (menuki made before Edo jidai but not assignable to any particular school or specific maker, Kyo Kanagushi (menuki made by koshirae makers in Kyoto), Edo Kanagushi (menuki made by koshirae makers in Edo), Umetada (none signed), and then the Machibori makers either by mei or by attribution based on resemblance to a known maker or school. I probably left out a few but I believe this gives you an idea as to groups. As for rating of quality (of course subjective in nature) anywhere from base to National Treasure level. Specific ratings will differ from one organization to another or governmental department. NBTHK has Hozon to Tokubetsu Hozon to Juyo to Tokubetsu Juyo. As for the items pictured I would think Kyo Kanagushi of standard production quality.

 

I hope this helps a bit.

[Lindus]

I would say that is very likely.

 

 

Yes I will go for that, the question is quality and rateing. I find it curious that in terms of craftsmanship menuki are up there with F&K,ojimi and certainly Netsuke....before you start on the Casting-v-carving debate which could given a glass or two of wine last for decades . I am sure that there are collectorof menuki, my old teacher(Sensei) had a large collection,sadly in later life he had many converted into bracelets as gifts to his female students(aside) he was a great ladies man much to my dissmay . { should add that my dissmay was not about his female likes but the Menuki braclets...phee.}

From the old school of non educated collectors I saw them as only odd things attached to swords,now, perhaps too late they seem to be an almost ignored art form.

 

I have a small collection of wood block prints, another art form more appreciated in the 19/20 century than now it seems, perhaps because of the web and vast availability of the subject{wait for the enslaught} but as with Menuki and Saya mono {Never been sure about why these were used, perhaps leftover menuki?} if their is a listing of makers and ranking for quality.

Roy

[Lindus]

SORRY PETER

Wrote the other prior to seeing you informative reply.

 

Thanks

 

Roy

[Pete Klein]

"From the old school of non educated collectors I saw them as only odd things attached to swords, now, perhaps too late they seem to be an almost ignored art form."

 

It has been said that in the Goto Family, "Menuki first, kogai second, kozuka third", which leaves everything else for last. To the Goto masters the menuki were a small and most exquisite universe. These are by Araki Tomei, a student of Goto Ichijo, late Edo. Not in Goto tradition but amazing in detail:

 

 

 

 

PS: menuki were fabricated by cast and positive and negative repousse' techniques.

[ububob]

Didn't I see that on Andy Quirt's website some time ago? I had heard that the artist designed his on punch to form the millet, is that true?

[Lindus]

Superb Peter, thanks

Roy

[Pete Klein]

Hi Bob and yes, he had his own punch and technique which was never adequately copied by another. his works are quite their own. I had the good fortune to have had these for a bit before being passed on to my best friend in the field. I had to just close my eyes as I packed them up... LOL!

[Ford Hallam]

PS: menuki were fabricated by cast and positive and negative repousse' techniques.

 

Menuki tend not to be cast. Casting invariably indicates a recent reproduction. Menuki are formed form sheet plate using a technique called uchi-dashi in Japanese. It is similar to chasing in that the work is carried out on the outside of the piece. There is a significant difference in technique though. The use of metal tools on the rear is avoided and considered poor form. The initial raising up of the sheet, to create the volume that will become the mini sculpture, is carried out with wooded or horn punches to avoid bruising what will be the inside later.

 

For a detailed photo essay on the traditional process here's a handy link

[Soshin]

Here is another set of menuki made of shakudo of a similar motif that I own. They could be made by the same school.

 

I think the design is about the story of the Soga Brothers Juro and Goro. The very famous story which takes place in Kamakura period Japan. It is about the brothers taking revenge for their father's Kawazu Sukeyasu death. One bushi in my menuki set looks like he is charing something that could possibly be a severed head. The story is the subject of many Kabuki, Nō dramas, and Ukiyoe during the late Edo period. I think this set of menuki dates from the same time period. Here is a Ukiyoe about the Soga Brothers by Kunisada Utagawa (1786-1865). I find the detail of the art in menuki amazing and wonderful.

 

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles (Soshin)