Wakizashi in Military Mounts - information requested

[Hachiman]

I recently bought this sword at a flea market in FL. I know that doesn't sound very auspicious, but it appears to be at least a WWII or earlier blade. It has some defects, but for the price I felt it was worth picking up. There was no provenance attached except that it had belonged to an ex-serviceman.

 

Photos are here, apologies for the poor lighting, I will try and get some better shots of the blade condition: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2010-4/1355702/2140186

 

I would be grateful for any comments.

 

Thank you in advance!

 

Robert.

[cabowen]

Blade is signed Echizen no Kami Minamoto Nobuyoshi. Nakago is in rough shape. Signature is iffy but can't determine with certainty due to the cleaning and image quality. In any case, it is a real Japanese sword, circa 17th century. Keep it well oiled and some of the dirt and grime may come off with light rubbing with a cotton cloth....

 

edited to correct sloppiness....

[Jamie]

May we see pics of the blade as well?

[Hachiman]

Thank you for the replies. I have added a few more photos to the album, hopefully showing the blade a bit more clearly. Photographing the hamon is not an easy thing obviously!

 

I forgot to add that the blade is 25 inches almost exactly from tip to tip, and from the tip to the front edge of the habaki(?) 19 1/2 inches measured parallel to the blade.

 

I'm glad to hear it is earlier than I thought. In my ignorance I had assumed that the chrysanthemum stamp meant it was Showa era military production.

 

I have heard from a Japanese native speaker that the signature reads "Echizen-no-kami Minamoto-no Nobuyoshi". Could this be an alternate reading?

 

Thanks again!

 

Robert.

[miner1436]

Reminds me of this

http://www.sanmei.com/Pictures/Sword/N6 ... 0_PUP1.jpg

rich r.

[cabowen]

Thank you for the replies. I have added a few more photos to the album, hopefully showing the blade a bit more clearly. Photographing the hamon is not an easy thing obviously!

 

I forgot to add that the blade is 25 inches almost exactly from tip to tip, and from the tip to the front edge of the habaki(?) 19 1/2 inches measured parallel to the blade.

 

I'm glad to hear it is earlier than I thought. In my ignorance I had assumed that the chrysanthemum stamp meant it was Showa era military production.

 

I have heard from a Japanese native speaker that the signature reads "Echizen-no-kami Minamoto-no Nobuyoshi". Could this be an alternate reading?

 

Thanks again!

 

yes, it is Minamoto...Wrote Fujiwara out of force of habit.....Edited above to correct that....Sorry about that...

[cabowen]

Reminds me of this

http://www.sanmei.com/Pictures/Sword/N6 ... 0_PUP1.jpg

rich r.

 

 

I think you will find, among other things, the kiku is a bit different.....

[Hachiman]

Thanks again. Is this one closer? http://www.samurai-nippon.net/44/

 

I see there is some mention of this smith elsewhere on this board.

 

I now see of course that the chrysanthemum that I assumed at a glance to be a stamp is actually hand cut. Interesting how the "modern " design predisposed me to assume that! There's a little lessson.

 

I've wiped the blade down with isopropynol and will warm it up with a heat gun to drive out any residual moisture before putting some light oil on. I've got some electric shaver oil that should do the trick(?)

 

Should the tang be oiled or not?

 

Oh, and I'm curious in what sense the nakago is "in rough shape" and the "signature is iffy"? I don't know what to look for which is why I ask, thanks.

 

Robert.

[cabowen]

Thanks again. Is this one closer? http://www.samurai-nippon.net/44/

 

yes, like yours, this kiku has the star at its center....

 

I see there is some mention of this smith elsewhere on this board.

 

I now see of course that the chrysanthemum that I assumed at a glance to be a stamp is actually hand cut. Interesting how the "modern " design predisposed me to assume that! There's a little lessson.

 

I've wiped the blade down with isopropynol and will warm it up with a heat gun to drive out any residual moisture before putting some light oil on. I've got some electric shaver oil that should do the trick(?)

 

Should the tang be oiled or not?

 

Oh, and I'm curious in what sense the nakago is "in rough shape" and the "signature is iffy"? I don't know what to look for which is why I ask, thanks.

 

 

That all sounds ok. You might want to invest in some appropriate oil.

 

A light coat of oil on the nakago in this case (normally the nakago is protected by a nice even patina but this looks to be rough and perhaps cleaned at one point) probably wouldn't hurt.

 

This is a fairly well known smith and there are plenty of fakes out there. It is always hard to make any judgments with any certainty from photo over the net. Compare yours to the example you found above. Note the placement, shaps, and spacing of the kanji, as well as the stroke direction, etc., of the kanji themselves...

[Hachiman]

I do have one other question about this sword: how common was it for an officer or NCO to carry a wakizashi, instead of a full-length sword and were there any regulations or reasons behind this particularly?

 

Were any particular military branches more likely to do so?

[cabowen]

As far as carrying a wakizashi in gunto koshirae, there are a few reasonable explanations:

 

1. It was a family owned blade. Swords were expensive and if there was already one readily available, why not use it...

 

2. The individual was of very small stature. A short blade is easier to use for a short person.

 

3. Anecdotally, Navy officers were said to prefer and carry shorter blades due to the close quarters and confinement of life aboard a ship. The same has been said of pilots.

 

Edited to add that indeed, as George has stated below, it is rather rare.....

 

Hope this is of some help....

[george trotter]

About the wearing of wakizashi in gunto mounts of WWII...it is not common, but I owned a navy mounted wakizashi by Kanesada...blade 21 1/2 inches, scabbard 30 inches...it had a small weight in the bottom of the scabbard to stop it being handle heavy (oshi in Malcolm Cox seki swords...supplement). The other two I saw were army mounts...one was similar situation as navy one, but second one was in miniature fittings (ie scabbard was correct length for blade, c,21 inches), overall about 2/3 size of "standard" gunto mounts... but I can't remember smith details as these two weren't my swords.

Regards,

George.

[Hachiman]

Thank you very much for that help, much appreciated. If I can presume on your patience a little further, how would the furniture on this sword be described, "gunto" or something else? And is the style identified with a particular branch of the military? (ie: army, airforce, navy?)

 

I just noticed that under the leather snap area I can feel the groove into which the handle of the small accessory knife would fit (sorry about the lack of proper terminology) Does this indicate a 'civilian' scabbard that has had the leather wrapping added for military use?

 

Is this snap closure unusual or indicative of the owner's military 'trade'?

 

Would it be advisable to polish the leather covering or is it best left alone?

 

I can see it must have been carried/worn for some time as the leather tip to the scabbard is worn away in one place where it would have scuffed against the wearer's boots etc.

 

Again, many thanks!

 

Robert.

[cabowen]

Thank you very much for that help, much appreciated. If I can presume on your patience a little further, how would the furniture on this sword be described, "gunto" or something else? And is the style identified with a particular branch of the military? (ie: army, airforce, navy?)

 

I just noticed that under the leather snap area I can feel the groove into which the handle of the small accessory knife would fit (sorry about the lack of proper terminology) Does this indicate a 'civilian' scabbard that has had the leather wrapping added for military use?

 

Is this snap closure unusual or indicative of the owner's military 'trade'?

 

Would it be advisable to polish the leather covering or is it best left alone?

 

I can see it must have been carried/worn for some time as the leather tip to the scabbard is worn away in one place where it would have scuffed against the wearer's boots etc.

 

Again, many thanks!

 

Robert.

 

 

This is indeed an Edo period koshirae that was adapted via a leather cover for WWII military service. Rare, but seen from time to time. The snap is purely functional. This is not associated with any particular branch of the military. Clean the leather with saddle soap or the like...

[Kurogasa55]

A fellow collector that i know has a katana that was mounted with edo period koshirae but also adapted for the war with a leather casing for the saya. The blade was signed but i cannot remember who made it at this point but i do remember that the blade was made in 1215.

[jason_mazzy]

A fellow collector that i know has a katana that was mounted with edo period koshirae but also adapted for the war with a leather casing for the saya. The blade was signed but i cannot remember who made it at this point but i do remember that the blade was made in 1215.

 

 

Any chance of some pictures of this 1215 blade?