Repatina?

[RRCOBRA]

Are there any tell tale signs that a tsuba has been repatinaed? Particularly in sukashi is there something that would be clearly seen in the web area?

[Soshin]

Good question. Not sure if there is a way to tell. They do it all the time with the tang (jp. nakago) of swords. It would be nice if someone more experience would reply to this post with a answer.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David S. (Soshin)

[Mark Green]

It is common practice to not ever 'clean' the inside edges of sukashi. If it look very clean. That could be a sign.

Post a pic. I bet there are a few here who can spot it.

Sometimes, tsuba need to be repatined. If damaged, or badly rusted, or many other reasons.

There are likely many thousands of tsuba out there that have been repatined in some way over the centuries.

There is likely no way to tell if your tsuba was repatined 150 years ago. Why would it matter? Patina is meant to protect your tsuba. If it is doing the job, that should be ok.

 

Do you have a pic of the tsuba in question? Or was it just a question?

[RRCOBRA]

Thanks for the comments. It was just a general question. I have seen a few pieces in person that the color seemed a bit off but I was just wondering if it was my untrained eyes or possibly repatination. The rust in the web is a good area to look at.

[tenkaichi]

I'm new to the board. but not to tsuba. There is no simple way to tell. Many things have happened to veteran tsuba, and most of these can be matched, or masked. The tsuba must be very closely examined by an eye that is acute. analytical, and experienced.

[christianmalterre]

Lou-i think i understand from which direction wind blows in your´s question.

Yes,there are tell signs naturally.

For evaluating you do need the knowledge of the iron which was used by the school or the smith,plus the knowledge of the normally occured patination on those specific schools and the way and material they used for patination of their´s work.

Equally with rust-there are several signs of rust and its different appearences.

Each school is different-each iron is different-so each patina is in sum different.

There are several methods to clear if the Tsuba was repatinateded,also.

This all question is very politic,too and of course there is the fact of money and interests involved-so i think it would be better not to ask too much

You have to study several aspects and several schools and smiths and evaluate on first hand sight.

Dangerous question those days!

Christian

[Lee Bray]

I had an old armourers tsuba repatinated professionally because it had been badly scratched in transit from the seller to me.

There were two obvious signs that repatination had been done.

Firstly, was the new appearance of the patina. It was clean and black and simply looked new.

Secondly, was the seppa dai area. Originally the tsuba showed a fair amount of wear around the seppa dai from mounting.

After the new patina, the wear was still visible but appeared 'underneath' the patina. The new patina was not burnished from years of contact with copper seppa.

I think both points could be 'rectified' with some work by the tsuba-shi so they are not foolproof.

 

I'm not so sure the web area, or insides, of sukashi would be a good place to check.

My tsuba has no sukashi except for the nakago ana and the kodzuka hitsu. The hitsu has been chiseled, not sawn, and has an unclean appearance to it anyway. From my understanding, the web area could be left untouched while repatination is done to the face of the tsuba so that area maybe original and untouched save for the chemicals used in repatination.

 

  christianmalterre said:

This all question is very politic,too and of course there is the fact of money and interests involved-so i think it would be better not to ask too much

Writing my above reply, I see your point.

If my post shows some of the tell tale signs too clearly, I'll be happy to delete.