Why cut the nagako?

[Gregc]

Will someone please educate me as to why there are so many cut nagakos? I cannot figure the reasoning for shortening that end of a sword.

Thank you,

[SwordGuyJoe]

Balance. If you cut off a section of the top of the blade, it will throw the center of gravity off unless you cut the other end too.

[watsonmil]

Dear Greg,

I own two swords which have been shortened, ... one being a VERY old Tachi which was shortened to create a wakizashi, ..

a second being a late koto period Katana which was shortened to fit WWII Gunto Mounts. Other reasons were damaged/broken kissaki necessitating the shortening of the tang for proper balance. There are probably other reasons, ... but these seem to be the most common that I have encountered.

 

... Ron Watson

[Henry Wilson]

I think the biggest reason so many swords were shortened was the chaage from tachi to uchigatana.

[Mark Green]

There were also laws put into effect in late period, governing the length a sword could be.

And you can only shorten a sword from the nakago end. Anything else would result in a dead and useless sword. If you cut off the good end you would loose boshi. DEAD!

Not including a fix on a broken kissaki.

But the style change was likely the biggest factor.

[cabowen]

many reasons, some already mentioned here such as a change in fighting style (tachi to katana) and laws governing sword lengths. Sometimes a new owner preferred a shorter blade and had the blade shortened. Sometimes the signature of a lessor smith was removed and the blade made to look shortened to deceive. Blades were never shortened from the tip end as mentioned above. If the tip was damaged such that the hardened edge was lost the blade would no longer be usable and rendered useless.

[watsonmil]

Dear Chris,

Never say never, .... a broken tip completely destroys the blade from a collector point of view, .... it DOES NOT destroy the sword as a fighting weapon ! Many very early Tachi for example have completely lost their kissaki, ... and yet were reshaped with a new kissaki, ... the temper running off the kissaki. From the point of view as a collectible piece .... it is dead ( a fatal flaw ), ... but please I am quite certain from the number of such blades still in existance that this was done, ... and still served the less wealthy samurai owner. Few swords were considred works of ART, ... they were weapons plain and simple, ... and so long as the blade had a cutting edge they were used.

 

... Ron Watson

[doug e lewis]

  Quote

a broken tip completely destroys the blade from a collector point of view, .... it DOES NOT destroy the sword as a fighting weapon !

 

seems almost from a different recent thread.

 

  Quote

Few swords were considred works of ART, ... they were weapons plain and simple, ... and so long as the blade had a cutting edge they were used

 

yes, again Mr. Watson san, you cut to the meat of the matter. two threads summed up in one. maybe? at least you provide a hint of a reason why my ichi kizu katana survived.... it still cuts!

 

doug

[Ford Hallam]

  Gregc said:

Will someone please educate me as to why there are so many cut nagakos? I cannot figure the reasoning for shortening that end of a sword.

Thank you,

 

Hi Greg,

 

it seems to me you're asking specifically why the nakago end was shortened when a blades length was altered...is that right?

 

If that's your question then the answer is because the tip of the blade, the kissaki, is hardened and it's vital to preserve the hamon configuration as it runs around the end, the boshi.

[jeremy]

What period of Japanese history was it when the law changed in regards to the length of the katana? And what was the maximum permitted length in the period and reason behind it?

 

Kind regards,

 

Jeremy Hagop

[cisco-san]

Maybe this article will help a little bit:

http://www.arscives.com/historysteel/ja ... uction.htm

[cabowen]

  watsonmil said:

Dear Chris,

Never say never, .... a broken tip completely destroys the blade from a collector point of view, .... it DOES NOT destroy the sword as a fighting weapon ! Many very early Tachi for example have completely lost their kissaki, ... and yet were reshaped with a new kissaki, ... the temper running off the kissaki. From the point of view as a collectible piece .... it is dead ( a fatal flaw ), ... but please I am quite certain from the number of such blades still in existance that this was done, ... and still served the less wealthy samurai owner. Few swords were considred works of ART, ... they were weapons plain and simple, ... and so long as the blade had a cutting edge they were used.

 

... Ron Watson

 

Yes, many early tachi have lost their boshi, and many of those are National Treasures, etc., so I wouldn't say it completely destroys the blade from a collector point of view in all cases....

 

In the heat of battle, without a replacement at hand, no doubt a sword that lost its tip could still be used but I find it hard to imagine anyone would willingly trust their lord's life to a defective blade. I think it far more likely that they were retired and treasured.

 

In any case, all we know for fact is that there are many old tachi surviving without boshi, and very few later swords still around without boshi. I suppose we are all free to draw our own conclusions and opinions.

 

By the way, what is an ichi kizu sword????

[Stephen]

[doug e lewis]

Greg,

According an article i have at hand by S. Alexander Takeuchi, Ph.D. ("Dr. T") of the Dept. of Sociology at U. of North Alabama "...it was during the late Momoyama period [ca. 1573-1600] when specific ranges of blade lengths started becoming the official (legal) criteria to designate different types of swords into specific catagories such as katana, wakizashi, tanto, etc."

 

During this period retrictions were made on who [status or class of people] could wear what type of sword. Only samurai were allowed to wear two swords. This was often ignored, because of varying definitions in the old laws, by chonin [commoners] and yakuza gangs in the early Edo period, after 1600 [or 1603 for some historians]. they would only carry one sword, but it would be long oo-wakzashi, which was nearly the same length of katana that they were prohibited to wear at all.

the Tokugawa Shoguante could not let this situation continue. After all, the Shoguate since Tokugawa Ieaysu had regulated just about everything, even down to the color of the saya samurai were allowed to wear while in Edo castle. After 1640 they issued several orders concerning swords and who could wear what and when.

 

"One of such orders was Dai-sho katana no Sumpou tohats futsumoh no Sei [The Order Regarding Dai-sho Katana and Hair Style] issued in July, Shoho 2 [1645]" the law specified the maximum blade length, measured from the ha-machi to the tip of the kissaki, for katana, wakazashi, etc.

 

All of Dr. T's articles are full of well researched info and worth reading again and again (like i just did to respond to your question).

 

Doug

[Justin Grant]

  watsonmil said:

Dear Chris,

Never say never, .... a broken tip completely destroys the blade from a collector point of view, .... it DOES NOT destroy the sword as a fighting weapon ! Many very early Tachi for example have completely lost their kissaki, ... and yet were reshaped with a new kissaki, ... the temper running off the kissaki. From the point of view as a collectible piece .... it is dead ( a fatal flaw ), ... but please I am quite certain from the number of such blades still in existance that this was done, ... and still served the less wealthy samurai owner. Few swords were considred works of ART, ... they were weapons plain and simple, ... and so long as the blade had a cutting edge they were used.

 

... Ron Watson

 

I have such a blade, and this is what Bob Benson told me about my blade. It was a Tachi that had the Kissaki broken off, reshaped, re-tempered, and the nakago shortened to make it a balanced katana. Dead from a "collecting art" side of things, but a great "military" collectable.

 

I also have a great Wakizashi that was once a Tachi, it was shortened from the nakago.

[Gregc]

Lots of great info and opinion in this thread. Thank you much, fellas. I'm learning........

[peter]

Hello guys,

I to have a blade that has been shortened from the kissaki end and the mei reads kanemichi,i enjoyed reading all the reasons for these blades to be kept, in time of conflict as a weapon, without the thought of value,

Peter

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

It is speculated that a possible source of ispiration to Sukemune to forge the first Osoraku was the sight of a balde made off a broken Odachi Kissaki.

 

*If* there is any reality in this, a mere utilitarian process of recycling turned out in an inspiration for an art object appreciated by such a Daimyo as Shingen.

[watsonmil]

Dear Peter et al,

Believe me you are not alone, .... if the truth be known there are FAR more of this type of sword around than one may think. With the advent of the Hadori Polish, .... dealers could have the polisher PAINT in a boshi using acid or other techniques thus making an ART Sword out of a utilitarian weapon ( just one of the reasons for my preference for the sashikomi polish ). It is more difficult to imitate a boshi with the traditional polish. Having said that, .... I own a Tachi ( suriage ) that has been shortened from both ends, and a new kissaki fashioned ( the sugaha temper runs straight off the kissaki ). This was NOT a recent attempt at deception, .... and it was not until the blade was polished that it was discovered. The original owner probably having had the end inch or two damaged or broken had obviously had a smith reshape the end into a new kissaki, ... and had the nakago shortened to compensate. Do I regret having had the sword polished ? .... NO, ... it is an example of an early tachi with utsuri, and many other workings to study. It also proves to me at least the Samurai were not nearly so wasteful as modern society.

The ONLY time you need that tempered tip is to THRUST thru armour. The point of the sword never comes into contact but for the already HARDENED edge when used as a slashing weapon ( its primary use in combat ), .... and consequently although not as good as when the very tip was tempered, never the less quite adequate for most all combat. Given the value of these swords when purchased by a samurai, ... I am sure few but the very upper class Samurai were able to just discard them. The whole trouble with the Nihonto community of today ( hopefully not the future ) is that they cannot get their head around Nihonto being a tool of war a WEAPON. There is much to admire and study in these damaged swords. NOT ALL of interest is found in the activity in the boshi. Given one's druthers of course we would prefer an intact ORIGINAL kissaki, ... but to write them off as fatally flawed is nothing short of silly. Peter and others who own these " fatally flawed " historical artifacts take pride in them, study them, and realize it is often the connoisseurs who's thinking is jaded and thus fatally flawed.

 

... Ron Watson

[cabowen]

  watsonmil said:

who own these " fatally flawed " historical artifacts take pride in them, study them, and realize it is often the connoisseurs who's thinking is jaded and thus fatally flawed.

 

... Ron Watson

 

I think it is just a difference in what people are looking for. Clearly many here look at swords as arifacts and value the history. For those people, clearly, as Ron as correctly pointed out, these swords are historical artifacts. Others are looking at swords from more of an artistic viewpoint. The kissaki is the face of the sword. Without a boshi, it is defaced and to many, ugly...If can no longer be called on to function as it once could....

 

That being said, I think it is obvious that for old tachi, a lot of slack is cut them due specifically to their age and history. As I have pointed out, there are National Treasures to Juto without boshi. Clearly the taste makers have recognized their historical value and given them their due.

 

When it comes to Shinto and after, they are suppose to be intact. Especially gendaito. I have seen plenty of WWII era blades without a boshi due to damage sustained in combat. These may attract those interested in history but I prefer them intact myself...

[watsonmil]

Dear Chris,

I totally agree with you ( in-itself somewhat unusual ), .... that swords of the later Shinto era and gendiato MUST have their boshi and Kissaki intact in order to be considered collectible. These periods unless we count WWII as being of the Bushido wars ( which it was not ), .... were times when the sword was more symbolic than practical. It is the Koto period and early Shinto period that I was primarily referring to when I wrote my views.

 

... Ron Watson

[doug e lewis]

Stephen, fine article! i would like to read the entire text that that came from so please post the title, author, etc. Love that sort of detail!

 

Chris, I think I must have mis-recalled what a "bundle" sword that had a minor flaw, that shouldn't affect its performance in battle, was called. I thought I read somewhere "ichi kizu", the kizu just meaning small flaw. Now I can't find the reference. No doubt I am wrong again.

 

My Japanese dictionary defines "kizu" as "a wound; injury; a cut". Since my katana has a small fukure yabure in the shinogiji several inches from the munemachi, I might have just made "ichi kizu" = "one flaw/wound" up.

My sayashi friend thought it was revealed from too many polishes, but it is small and there may have even been an attempt to repair it -- umegane -- which was only partially successful. A tired old blade, and you have look hard in just the right light and angle to see her hamon, so not very pretty ---nicks on the ha, a few spots of inactive rust ---but no more polishes her. I'll stop now

 

Doug

[cabowen]

maybe you meant kazu uchi mono...???

[Stephen]

Doug

 

Sword and Same*

Henri Joly And Imada Hgitaro

[Chris Osborne]

What has always amazed me, is that there's no shortage of blades which have been whittled down to mere pencils with only a sliver of their yakiba left, bearing little to no resemblance of their former selves in either shape or appearance, yet they are still considered art pieces and "collectible". As a weapon, the healthy and well made sword which has lost it's boshi is still far superior to the art pencil in every way. As an art piece, it is unfortunate that it will have lost all of it's desirability. I know there are exceptions, but they are rare.

 

As for the nakago, I think that's been answered pretty well already. Sorry for the OT rant.

[cabowen]

  Chris Osborne said:

What has always amazed me, is that there's no shortage of blades which have been whittled down to mere pencils with only a sliver of their yakiba left, bearing little to no resemblance of their former selves in either shape or appearance,....

 

We have amateur polishers to thank for some of these....What amazes me is that people who claim to love swords continue to try to save a buck by using unqualified people to restore their beloved sword....Sorry, ranting again myself....

[Chris Osborne]

Edited

[doug e lewis]

Thank you Stephen. Now I must see if I can find a copy of "Sword & Same" available somewhere. All Joly's stuff seems to be above my pay grade, but ya nevr know if ya don't look!

 

Yes, Chris san,

  Quote

maybe you meant kazu uchi mono...???

Exactly, for when i said "bundle sword". i had thought that was a modern casual term for "kazu uchi mono". as for "ichi kizu" .... can't find it in the several files and books i went thru ... so maybe i did make up the term "one flaw" = "ichi kizu". And another Japanese-English dictionary i have [sanseido's New Concise, pub. 1923, unpdated 1975] has as a 4th def. of kizu "a fault;a defect; a flaw; a blemish". So maybe it works in trying to describe the condition of my tired kazu uchi mono katana!

Writing the kanji would help to be more precise, but i don't have a web site for that ... any suggestions? Raining now, here in the High desert!! So time for a

 

Doug

[Adrian]

While reading this very informative thread, one question pops up: when exactly did a nihonto with a broken tip started to be regarded as junk? (maybe a too harsh word, but..)

 

Is this strictly a collector's view or maybe the samurai of the later periods started to be more picky as there was no big conflit in sight? (therefore the supply of really good swords being probably higher then the demand)

[Jean]

Adrian,

 

You should know by now.

 

It is "junk" when the boshi is touched by the tip breaking: fatal flaw.