Miike MITSUYO Imperial Household Sword

[cabowen]

...for a long time now members have actually been asking you to "speak" on this subject (and many other subjects not so "great" like your views on the papering of what some call wartime "crap"),

George.

 

George-

 

You have asked this question on several occasions and I can't help but wonder why you are so interested in what he thinks about the topic???

[Stephen]

Shame this thread on a very interesting sword that was mounted for the Imperial Household is now being reduced to banter between two (and other) very educated men who looks like their trying to piss farther than the other. Give us a break. Back to the sword more pix Ed?

[Jean]

Thanks Stephen

[george trotter]

OK Chris and Stephen and Jean...last comment...promise :lol:

 

First Chris...I asked Reinhard about the NBTHK and NTHK papering WWII blades because it is due to him that this page "Military Swords" was created...he just did not want to see WWII "militaria", "crap" etc on a Nihonto forum. Well, as it can be demonstrated these WWII items are indeed papered as Nihonto "worthy of preservation" by the Japanese Naijin organisations, I was wondering, following the rules of logic, whether Reinhard has been wrong in his assessment of WWII gendaito, or whether the Japanese Naijin are wrong in their assessment...as a Naijin himself, he must know the answer. It is a logical question that deserves a logical answer. The reason I have asked it several times is that Reinhard does not seem to want to answer...(what HE thinks of WWII gendaito is irrelevant to me...I just want to hear his reasoning on the Shinsa question).

 

Now Stephen...this is not a pissing competition on my part, it is a genuine attempt to get Reinhard to act in an informative way to the 99.999% of members who know less than him. If, as he says, that 99.999% of members should "shut up" on topics where they have no knowledge, then what happens to the board?...who is the judge of what members are competent to talk about?...well it sounds like Reinhard. Should the board be a forum for discussion and teaching/learning, or a playground for a bully? Personally, I don't think members should put up with what is actually just verbal abuse...it would be much easier if Reinhard shares his knowledge.

Your final words Stephen are about the lack of discussion on "...a very interesting sword that was mounted for the Imperial Household...". I agree, what started off with contributions from the 99.999% who know nothing was hijacked by the 00.001% who know everything and who basically has said the sword isn't interesting and has implied all sorts of faults...without actually explaining his reasons. Well now he is invited to do so...after all, isn't this what the board is really about?

 

 

Finally Jean...what?

 

regards to all,

George.

[Jean]

This Forum is not mine, but members' and also Brian's because he is the one who administrates it.

 

Should it be mine, I am a bit of a dictator, all posts neither complete nor conclusive would be deleted, thus reducing considerably the number of posts and controverses which are disturbing my wa:laughabove: .

 

A lot of topics are interesting, IMO, mainly in the Tosogu section - People are well educated, real scholars and friendlier, ready to learn, to teach and share their knowledge. Probably due to the fact that an average or good tsuba will cost fex bucks compared to its equivalent sword

 

I am not interested in Guntos - but I like gendaito and shinsakuto.

 

"General Nihonto Related Discussion" : One of my favourite, various topics, well documented

 

Translation assistance : I learn with difficulty some kanji but I marvel at the dexterity of our Japanese members (Morita san, Koichi san) - I won't talk about Markus, always willing to help with great knowledge, Chris ...

 

E-bay section : Everybody knows what I think of E-bay for Nihonto.

 

Nihonto section : It is what I shall call a mix of : Gunfight at OK corral, Stage coach, High Noon.

 

Few interesting topics, most time controversial, because blades discussed are often out of polish, absolutely not representative of specific schools (Lord has pity on the Gokaden) and above all from time to time ending in what Stepehn is calling a "who has the longest one" or "who is pissing the farthest".

 

BUT, when there is a post by Ted (one of the most qualified to talk because he is a polisher and has a thorough understanding of blades) or by Clive, Darcy, Koichi san, Guido, Chris, Reinhard, Paul, I read them and enjoy them.

 

I perfectly understand that Reinhard's comments can irritate people. Do as I do : If it is just a comment, as it is often cryptic, just skip it. That is what I call posts that are neither complete nor conclusive. Take just notice that he seems to disagree. From time to time, if he is not too lazy, he will take time to express his views which are always interesting because he is very educated and has seen a lot of things - but no more probably than other people as Clive or Gordon Robson, Ford or Markus and some others.

 

Nihonto is not a world of competition but as I love to study characters, believe me it is one of the richest ore, when I subscribed a few years ago, I could not have imagined such a lucky strike.

[paulb]

A couple of years ago for reasons that I need not describe here I took the decision to reduce my invlovement with the various soceities I had belonged to. On reflection I realised that if I continued to do that I would effectively become a hermit. While not making any claim to expertise or learning I did and do believe that knowledge and experience not shared is wasted, So in an attempt to stay in touch I have kept some involvement with this board.

based on this current thread and the several other bad tempered ones that preceded it I believe this was a mistake. Can I make the following points which are based not on claims of expertise, great intelligence or any god given talent but justified in the fact that I have studied and loved this subject for more than half of my life and been lucky enough to meet and deal with some very fine people in that time.

 

1. Not everyone has the opportunity to follow their dream and study first rate art in its place of origin. Those that do make considerable sacrifice and deserve respect for the effort they make.

 

2. those of us who have been unable or unwilling to do this have had to take a different route spending time studying as much written work and seeing the best examples they could. We also have to accept that it will be almost impossible to reach the level of understanding those who do study in Japan achieve.

 

3. For those that have devoted their adult lives to this interest it must be incredibly frustrating firstly that those who are not prepared to make a similar effort seek almost immediate gratification and knowledge. How many first purchase ebay swords have appeared here over the years with claims that the buyer has uncovered a national treaure and then gone off arse in hand (excuse the anglo saxon term) when told otherwise.

4. Equally gaulling is when those with very limited knowledge starting spouting opinions as though they were statements of fact. This can only mislead and it does.

 

On the other side those placing their first steps in to the subject we all love need support and guidance. It doesnt need to be always gentle but it does need to be constructive.

 

It is apparent that this approach is becoming increasingly difficult to achieve. Virtually every thread that starts with something more interesting than "whats it worth" or "I found this on Ebay" ends up with bad tempered argument. With this in mind I seriously question what hope there is for this study in the future?

Anyway I am sure this will add little to the debate and should the moderators feel it inapproriate please remove it. But as a word of caution if the Ego's continue to rule this board will go the way of many other societies andf groups and will fail.

[drbvac]

I agree Paul and maybe the problem is that not for 99.999 % but 85% we are on the wrong Board.

 

I am sure that there are other Nihonto boards where some of the less talkative members here would be a fount of knowledge.

 

As a dental consultant I meet all kinds of experts in various fields and as with anything else everyone has and is entitled to an opinion. Doesn't mean that the opinion need be expressed in a manner that denegrates all others, and in fact really does more good if expressed clearly with evidence to back and everyone learns something.

 

If I were attending a meeting where all had opinions different from mine and after I explained " why" properly, they still did not want to listen I would not go again. Same here - if an opinion is not explained to the benefit and edification of all it may as well not be stated and if it is and not appreciated after then why bother making any comments at all.

 

it would be too frustrating for me = like explaining quantum mechanics to a duck.

 

I have to say that many of the real experts on this board, published and recognized in their fields, do all us rank amateurs a real honor by even commenting and for that I acknowledge them and thank them for their time.

 

Others - just as soon skip the thread.

[Jean]

Thanks Paul/Brian for these comments.

 

I have no ego in this field so I am not easily disturbed or hurt by comments, that is why I wrote under my signature "Soshin Gimei" and not "Shoshin Gimei"

 

All posts should be factual and only factual. Nevertheless, NMB is the only open dedicated Forum ressource on Nihonto (In English) for beginners and more advanced students and thus is invaluable

 

Please admire that to avoid any controverse, I have added "open" "dedicated" and (in English)

 

There are others but private and only by invitation

 

This will always be an endless topic as long as men shall be men. So let it considered as closed.

[mdiddy]

First, I respect Reinhard’s opinions and I appreciate the position he offers on many topics. While disagreeable, I look at his posts as challenges to the initial poster to prove/disprove their case, thereby acting as a quality filter. While sometimes unpleasant, without filters like his, the board could quickly devolve into a celebration of all swords/fittings with no vocal filters to discern key differences and identify what separates quality from quantity.

 

However, I want to make a recommendation. If you disagree with Reinhard’s disagreement then why not ask him to back up his opinion with facts. If he does not reply then keep asking, LOUDLY, a 2nd, 3rd, 4th time to ad nauseum. If he still does not reply then it may make his argument look weak since he avoids. But if you keep asking, and take the debate to PM if necessary, then at some point you may get his factual justification. From that justification you can learn and if you still disagree then take the opportunity to challenge his assertions with facts. And by facts, I mean post pictures, scan images from references, post links to reputable websites, cite highly regarded books verbatim, etc. It will take time to gather facts but you will probably learn something as you do. Replying with just a counter-opinion and no facts is weak, stokes a pissing match, and you know what they say about opinions – everybody’s got one…

 

While the debate can be unpleasant, turn nasty, etc, if it sticks to facts then it is at least grounded allowing everyone to watch and learn, but more importantly when its over, there is a factual grounding for the understanding that is reached which might lead to a higher understanding than before.

 

An example of what I am recommending can be seen here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7880. While the topic was trivial, Reinhard’s opinion was challenged, a debate ensued, facts were presented, and maybe we all learned something (at least I did).

 

Back to the initial post, I am looking forward to seeing from Ed pictures showing clearly hada, hamon, hataraki, boshi and all under different lighting conditions if possible so we can see how his sword stands up to additional scrutiny. So far we only see mostly the fittings and I do not think that is what Reinhard is challenging.

[Guido]

Very well said, Paul! It’s refreshing to hear a voice of reason once in a while.

 

I’m still of the opinion that Guntō don’t belong on this board; there are quite a few other, militaria fora around that specialize in mass-produced war memorabilia. Whatever they are, they are not Nihontō to which this message board is dedicated.

 

Having said that – and since the sword in question obviously isn’t a Guntō - back to the item itself:

 

Miike swords are very rare. I remember having examined only two in all my years of collecting. I’m currently travelling in Germany and am therefore without my books, but if I remember correctly, Miike swords have a Chū-suguha Hamon with Midare mixed in and outstanding Hataraki, short Kissaki with Ō-maru Bōshi, a wide Mihaba and Torii-zori. Mitsuyo was famous for his well cut, wide, Kata-chiri Bō-hi. The photos posted seem to fit many of these Kantei points, but it’s impossible to tell from them one way or the other.

 

However, there are a few points that raise a red flag: the odd, out of place (pun intended) Mekugi-ana, and the “stand alone” Kinzōgan-mei, i.e. one without a Kaō that doesn’t have the “feel” of being done in the Edo period, as well as how and where the Bō-hi ends. I don’t want to get into the strange Habaki that looks very much like the design was milled or laser cut since it could be a later replacement. If it wasn’t for the Nakago I would give the attribution the benefit of doubt, but it looks too much like an “imposter” for my taste.

[george trotter]

Hi all,

Am enjoying all the very interesting and reasoned comments...both pro and co. The comments by Brian ring a natural chord for me as I spent 14 years in mining and had many discussions and arguments about metals extraction and chemical processes, followed by 26 years in academe where I also had many discussions/arguments/debates with colleagues, on many subjects. While sometimes hot, they were always reasoned, polite and backed by evidence (no-one ever stuck his head through the door and said we were all wrong and then ran away without proving it) . We did not always end up agreeing on a point, but we maintained our friendships and respect for each other...and learned from each other's argument and evidence. This is the system that I expected here.

 

Just on Ed's sword fittings, there are some detailed pictures of a "single hand" machine-made sabre kyu-gunto mounts with identical Imperial Household insignia on page 166 of Fuller "Jap. Mil. & Civ. Swords & Dirks"...(I'd scan it but scanner u/s). These insignia are identical on hilt and scabbard and also show missing suspension mounts for scabbard. Differences are this Fuller sword has leather scabbard material and no mon on habaki. There are two or three? versions of this mentioned in Fuller so Ed's makes a fourth I think...two mentioned have nihonto blades, the others sabre machine-made blades.

 

regards,

George.

 

PS....just noticed Guido's post...Guido, I was asking about the Hozon and Kanteisho papering of WWII gendaito (yes, made as gunto, but with traditionally made blades...not mass-produced blades). In your opinion, should WWII gendaito be classed as "militaria" and "crap"? Do you think the NBTHK and NTHK Shinsa Naijin have made an error?

 

PPS interesting comments about the Miike...with reasons too, I appreciate it...on the kinzogan...when is the cut-off point for applying genuine kinzogan attributions, at time of suriage (if shortened) or at time of appraisal if mumei...or? When do they become "too late"?

[Brian]

I don't have the time or energy to write a comprehensive answer to yet another squabble. Thanks Jean for holding the fort.

I am merely going to repost a very good write up by Paul. Please read it, then read it again. Wise words:

 

1. Not everyone has the opportunity to follow their dream and study first rate art in its place of origin. Those that do make considerable sacrifice and deserve respect for the effort they make.

 

2. those of us who have been unable or unwilling to do this have had to take a different route spending time studying as much written work and seeing the best examples they could. We also have to accept that it will be almost impossible to reach the level of understanding those who do study in Japan achieve.

 

3. For those that have devoted their adult lives to this interest it must be incredibly frustrating firstly that those who are not prepared to make a similar effort seek almost immediate gratification and knowledge. How many first purchase ebay swords have appeared here over the years with claims that the buyer has uncovered a national treaure and then gone off arse in hand (excuse the anglo saxon term) when told otherwise.

4. Equally gaulling is when those with very limited knowledge starting spouting opinions as though they were statements of fact. This can only mislead and it does.

 

On the other side those placing their first steps in to the subject we all love need support and guidance. It doesnt need to be always gentle but it does need to be constructive.

 

We have lost, and will lose more, good students of Nihonto and advanced collectors. Much of this because by our nature, we encourage and appeal to newcommers and novices. This is frustrating to serious collectors, as 80% of these guys will pop in, discover their new item is not going to make them rich, and then disappear. I don't care what anyone says...this is true. The "roamanticism" of "samurai swords" is what leads many here, and I'll be damned if I am going to always be diplomatic about these swords. I am tired of people constantly trawling the under $400 section of eBay and then expecting they have found a treasure. and then when we don't make the appropriate noises, they moan and sulk.

This isn't a pretty hobby, and it isn't for everyone. Many of you novices are still here years later..proving you are in it for the long haul. You have seen hundreds of others come and go though, and these are the guys who frustrate serious collectors and even dedicated beginners.

 

This isn't about what the Japanese think of WW2 swords. I opened that section to move those into a category of their own so that the other collectors can have a Nihonto section, free from them. If you don't like WW2 swords...please stay out of that section or I will block that forum myself.

Let's keep the Gunto/Showato/Gendaito out of the other sections. No matter whether the Japanese paper them or not, they are avoided by many in Japan and no matter how good some works are, they do not appeal to all Nihonto collectors. I made the decision to give them a section...let's use it.

 

A lot of you would enjoy a forum consisting solely of beginners praising low class junk. I am not going there. Neither am I stopping the discussion of low class or average swords. I am going to carry on for now as before. It works for the most part, even though I will make some changes from time to time. I will investigate those in the near future. Some will leave, some new members will join. I might even remove a few members myself. But that is my decision and mine alone.

 

I don't want to hear personal attacks again..I am warning for the last time. There is an "ignore" function on this forum. Use it. This bickering is an insult to those that come here day after day to help people and share their knowledge. I won't have their hard work watered down.

 

Brian

 

Edit to add: If this bickering doesn't stop, I am going to take down the forum for a week and let people go have a taste of real life.

[cabowen]

1. Not everyone has the opportunity to follow their dream and study first rate art in its place of origin. Those that do make considerable sacrifice and deserve respect for the effort they make.

 

2. those of us who have been unable or unwilling to do this have had to take a different route spending time studying as much written work and seeing the best examples they could. We also have to accept that it will be almost impossible to reach the level of understanding those who do study in Japan achieve

3. For those that have devoted their adult lives to this interest it must be incredibly frustrating firstly that those who are not prepared to make a similar effort seek almost immediate gratification and knowledge. How many first purchase ebay swords have appeared here over the years with claims that the buyer has uncovered a national treaure and then gone off arse in hand (excuse the anglo saxon term) when told otherwise.

4. Equally gaulling is when those with very limited knowledge starting spouting opinions as though they were statements of fact. This can only mislead and it does.

 

 

 

 

I hardily agree with what Paul has so eloquently expressed.

 

As someone who was once a beginner and has made more sacrifices than most in my endeavors in a field that can perhaps best be described in the West as arcane and at times draconian, I believe I am qualified to speak to some of the views he has raised...

 

We all start at the same point. It does one well to remember that. Those that can't empathize and/or can not remember what it was like to be thirsty for knowledge have other issues and are best left alone.

 

How far we take it is up to each individual and his/her unique set of circumstances. What is important is a willingness to learn. That will carry a person far and in most cases will command respect and/or compassion from those that have walked that path themselves.

 

Yes, people that have been active as collectors for a long time and yet still can not even read a basic mei, instead running to others to do their homework, are lazy and off putting to those that have put in the time. At this stage it is highly doubtful that scorn, open contempt, or simple rudeness will change them. One can either help them yet again, or simply ignore them, depending on one's own commitment to sharing knowledge for the good of the hobby.

 

Equally off-putting are those that think because of their library, collection, time spent collecting, or the fact that they spend a few weeks in Japan once a year, think they are somehow authorities or better than everyone else. There is a continuum of learning, from beginner to expert; to someone who spends a few weeks in Japan every year, the person who doesn't looks to be a dilettante. To someone who has lived in Japan, attending kantei kai several times a month for many years, the once a year visitor appears the dilettante. One's position on the continuum is relative-there is always someone on both sides. Knowing one's place is a good thing.

 

Before I moved to Japan I was always disappointed at the "go away kid, you are bothering me" attitude I got at US sword shows from the senior "experts". Few to none would answer my questions and I could not understand why... After a few years in Japan I began to receive calls and inquiries from many of these same people, asking me questions. It soon became clear that that the reason these "experts" wouldn't answer my questions was because they couldn't. Rather than admit they were ignorant, they resorted to rudeness. Who knew at the time there were so many naked people at a sword show???

 

Having been employed for many years at a university, perhaps I have a natural predisposition towards education and learning....I do not know. What I know for sure is that all those years in Japan spent pestering craftsman, museum staff, collectors, and kantei experts, my inquisitiveness was always met with an unselfish sharing of knowledge. People went out of their way countless times to teach and explain to me what was surely fundamental to them. How refreshing it was to be surrounded by experts who enjoyed nothing more than sharing their knowledge and passion with others, and doing so humbly, with humility, and selflessly. While I did not find the study easy, I can say that it was far from "harsh" and I enjoyed every bit of it. How can living one's dream ever be "harsh"?

 

As a result of this, I have an immense obligation in my mind to reciprocate and pass along whatever shred of knowledge I digested. This is the debt I owe. This is how we honor our teachers and mentors-by sharing and passing along their teachings.

[doug e lewis]

After 20 years of growing interest and increasing depth of study of Nihonto, I am natrually still [as I am sure most senior NMB view me] a novice newbie. As one of the 99.999%, the opinions and comments expressed in this thread, and most NMB threads I have read, have been VERY educational & interesting, and even entertaining to me. PLEASE don't stop!

 

And I promise I will not post any pix or ask any questions about my very ordinary katana until I: 1. Can take decent photos [need better camera, I think, and re-read Darcy's article on photographing nihonto; and, 2. Have done MY own research and due dilagence.

 

IMHO, the sword and its mounts are pretty, and can't wait to see more pix of the blade so can better understand the discussion. About the sword, that is!

 

again.

 

doug e lewis

formerly Ashigaru

[Ed Hicks]

When I return next week I will try to post decent images of the blade...My original intent was to just share an unusual sword on this forum ...I didn't anticipate the controversy or the apparent negative effect it would have on another's sensibilities ...My statement regarding the Mitsuyo was based on my research and at no time did I make a claim that it is OTenta as may have been suggested (I'm not totally stupid, just lazy )...Ed

[Brian]

No worries Ed,

This kinda thing happens a few times a year, and can be brought out by any random thread. So don't feel like it was yours specifically and don't think most of this is directed at you or your sword. If your sword had a name...call it "catalyst" :lol:

 

Brian

[Guido]

In your opinion, should WWII gendaito be classed as "militaria" and "crap"? Do you think the NBTHK and NTHK Shinsa Naijin have made an error?

Nihontō are Nihontō, no matter if they were made 1,000 years ago or yesterday, and no matter what mountings they are put in. Nihontō made during WWII are few and far between, and even those are more often than not of little artistic merit. There are notable exceptions, but the difference is in the *workmanship*, it doesn’t matter if they carry a star stamp or are made at the Yasukuni shrine.

Equally off-putting are those that think because of their library, collection, time spent collecting, or the fact that they spend a few weeks in Japan once a year, think they are somehow authorities or better than everyone else. There is a continuum of learning, from beginner to expert; to someone who spends a few weeks in Japan every year, the person who doesn't looks to be a dilettante. To someone who has lived in Japan, attending kantei kai several times a month for many years, the once a year visitor appears the dilettante. One's position on the continuum is relative-there is always someone on both sides. Knowing one's place is a good thing.

I do have an extensive library, own a couple of quality blades, am collecting for more than 30 years, and have lived quite a few years in Japan where I attended Kantei sessions on a regular basis. That doesn’t make me an expert by default. I know a few people who spend little time in Japan, but I step back and listen whenever they have something to say. OTOH, I don’t see the need for pretended modesty (“I’m still a beginner”). Knowing one’s place is indeed the biggest problem this forum suffers from.

 

P.S.: I never used the word "crap" for Guntō - to each his own, people should collect whatever makes them happy. But they only have in shape and function some resemblance to Nihontō, and are otherwise totally different animals.

 

P.P.S.: My use of Gaijin / Naijin was meant to make a point. I'm glad it worked, but we should leave it at that.

[george trotter]

No worries Ed,

If your sword had a name...call it "catalyst" :lol:

 

Brian

 

Heh, heh...catalyst, that's a good one. :lol:

 

Guido, thank you for your comments about WWII gendaito/nihonto...if I may say so, it is the logical position of a logical man. And no, it wasn't you who used the word "crap" for all WWII swords...that was "another" person (not so logical)...as logical men know and as Japanese Shinsa teams have confirmed, there are good gendaito among the gunto...that is what I and others collect.

Well that seems to be a conclusion for me...I don't think we'll hear back from "you-know-who", nor do we need to...

 

Apologies to Ed, your sword was indeed the "catalyst"...I for one like your sword and its fittings...fantastic find, both artistically and historically...it would be nice to know more about both. BTW this following may be connected...I just noticed a pic of General Kuribayashi in the book "Letters from Iwo Jima" by Kumiko Kakehashi (Phoenix, Lon. 2007 p.95). The pic is 1943 in Canton (he left here June '43) and he is holding a Kyu-gunto mounted sword (leather combat cover) which Wikipedia says was presented to him by Emperor Taisho in 1923. It is very late to be carrying such a sword and he is pictured elsewhere as holding a shingunto. I speculate that he had two sets of mounts (or 2 swords), and when in battle, preferred the original Emperor's gift mount. The backstrap seems ornate, but I can't see the hangers (sorry, my son broke my scanner...but will scan later if members want). I raise this Ed, because I wonder if your mounts are a gift mount or a Household "use" mount.

 

Regards,

George.

[Jean]

Ed,

 

What I would like is an overall view of the sword, without its tsuka.

 

Miike school is a fantastic old school, once you have seen a koto old one, from the suguta you can kantei more than 90% of kamakura even Nambokucho ones. I shall not describded the School characteristics, hamon, hada because it is not what strikes one when he first sees a Miike Daito. The suguta is striking and cannot be compared to any other school: very large, very little fumbari if none, Ikubi kissaki and the trade mark which is very large Bo-hi. This suguta will be found for centuries in Miike school.

 

I have seen a Juyo one that I kanteied years ago in one of Darcy's exercises. Since I saw only one utsushi for sale on Aoi Art. There are rare, as said Guido, but should I find one, I shall buy it (depending on the price of course)

[reinhard]

It is textbook Mitsuyo (Very interesting habaki similar mon as on the O-Tenta)

 

This is what made the "catalyst" going. Remember? After some more or less entertaining salti and pirouettes I'd like to go back to this particular statement.

 

It is suggesting there is something like a "textbook MITSUYO". - Very little is known about the MITSUYO working around late Heian/early Kamakura period. Actually "O-Tenta MITSUYO" (treasured by the Maeda) and "Miike MITSUYO" (treasured by Kunozan Toshogu) are the only two reliable examples we can refer to. At least one of them must be known (i.e. studied in hand) to make a valid statement. Anything else is just ridiculous. - You can read all the books and study all the hi-res pics in the world. They are just preparing you for what's to come. No less and no more. They are no substitutes for the real thing.

A few things can be said about the pictures of the nakago however and Guido pointed them out very well.

 

reinhard

[Ed Hicks]

It is textbook Mitsuyo (Very interesting habaki similar mon as on the O-Tenta)

 

This is what made the "catalyst" going. Remember? After some more or less entertaining salti and pirouettes I'd like to go back to this particular statement.

 

It is suggesting there is something like a "textbook MITSUYO". - Very little is known about the MITSUYO working around late Heian/early Kamakura period. Actually "O-Tenta MITSUYO" (treasured by the Maeda) and "Miike MITSUYO" (treasured by Kunozan Toshogu) are the only two reliable examples we can refer to. At least one of them must be known (i.e. studied in hand) to make a valid statement. Anything else is just ridiculous. - You can read all the books and study all the hi-res pics in the world. They are just preparing you for what's to come. No less and no more. They are no substitute for the real thing.

A few things can be said about the pictures of the nakago however and Guido pointed them out very well.

 

reinhard

reinhard, I may have been careless describing the sword initially and I may be wrong in my hope that this sword is of the school (according to my very limited research)...However I phrased my posting there is no reason for such arrogance on your part or such a dismissive attitude toward fellow collectors (or subjects as implied by the tone of your comments)...A simple and courteous reflective suggestion to visit the sword again and attempt to properly present it for comment would have sufficed. Ed

[Jean]

Game over