Request help with Identifying Kanji / Mei / Nengo

[La Espada Ancha]

Hello All,

 

I once again humbly come in front of the forum requesting assistance. This time, however, it is on behalf of a friend of mine. Each week, I meet with a couple friends. Today, one of them brought a sword of his to show me and to ask my opinion. I took pictures of the nakago. My feeble efforts to discern a couple of the kanji using my very limited references lasted about a half-hour. I write to request any assistance the knowledgeable forum members here may be able to provide, and thank you in advance for the same.

 

Am I correct in interpreting the province as "Echizen?" The only kanji I could decipher from the nengo is "year," and I have no confidence in either interpretation.

 

One note - the ha-machi and mune-machi were offset from each other - something that differs from my own kai-gunto and three nihonto. Is this "normal," or does it mean I have bad news for my friend?

 

Pictures to follow (please pardon the poor quality, as I was at my friend's house and relegated to using my camera phone):

 

 

 

 

[hybridfiat]

Forgive my impertinance as a novice collector but having restored a good number of rusty firearms I speculate that the nakago has been sanded and the red dust is still in the mei.

You might want to tell your friend that removal of that rust reduces the swords value even rendering it worthless in some cases.

Please excuse me if I am wrong.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Mei reads Echizen Sakatada 越前坂田 unknown swordwmith for me. I can't decipher the "nengo".

 

Maybe i'm wrong but is seems (FWIS) to be a fake.

[Nobody]

You do not have to worry about the cleaned nakago. The sword had no value from the beginning. It seems to be a fake.

[Jean]

Just for fun, notice how ha machi and mune machi are aligned....

[Gregc]

Jean, it's so obvious AFTER you point it out...:-)

[Jean]

Greg,

 

A few hints about fakes :

 

The lines are never crisps as they are in real Nihonto

Often the kissaki has almost a straight cutting edhe (it should be rounded)

Japanese smiths are very proud of their Nakago and yasurime (file marks) - all this is neat/clean splendid finish

The hada (Texture/skin), (forget hitatsura or hada tachi which are more pronounced and unmistakable), is very discret/subtle never outrageously Damascus like (apart from ayasugi but this one is very regular)

 

To be short, Nihonto is never flashy to the eyes, it is good taste, fakes are flashy roughly made because they must be "forged" in short time and appeal to the layman. I know a guy who has bought more than 20 fakes before getting a real Nihonto ....

 

Same for Tosogu

[La Espada Ancha]

Well, I feel fortunate to have learned at someone else's expense. Unfortunately, that "someone" is a friend of mine!

 

Thank you Jean, et al, for your assistance. As per my OP, the offset ha-machi and mune-machi immediately caught my eye, but given my very limited exposure, I did not know if this was a "red flag," a hallmark of a given tradition/school, or simply a sign of poor quality.

 

Sounds like the answer was "D," which reads "Both A and C."

 

One other note - something I didn't want to add in the OP as I did not wish to influence anyone's input - when viewing the blade down the length of the blade and an acute angle, the "rippling" (I'm not sure what the correct term for this is), was not even remotely as refined as it is on my (3) nihonto, and in fact much more closely resembled my kai-gunto (handmade, but not gendaito). Hence I was thinking that maybe the nengo might date this as a Showa-era blade. But as the consensus is forming (has formed?) that it is a fake, maybe this is moot.

 

Aside from the offset machi, what other "red flags" can I bring to his attention? The shinogi is straight, the hamon - while not leaping off the blade as it does in my few blades - appears to be the result of an actual tempering process and not etched, and the kissaki is indeed rounded...

 

Thanks again to everyone who has been able to contribute.

[Brian]

You don't have to go further than the nakago. 2 Seconds, and it screams fake.

The lines are all rounded, the shape is wrong. The shinogi line runs in the wrong place, and is not straight. The mei is too centered in general, and the filemarks are all sloppy and in the wrong direction. The patina is wrong, and the machi too. Did I leave anything out? :lol:

I find the best thing to do is to go and get a photo of a real nakago, then photoshop it next to this one. You will see the differences very fast indeed. No time right now to do that though.

 

Brian

[La Espada Ancha]

You don't have to go further than the nakago. 2 Seconds, and it screams fake.

The lines are all rounded, the shape is wrong. The shinogi line runs in the wrong place, and is not straight. The mei is too centered in general, and the filemarks are all sloppy and in the wrong direction. The patina is wrong, and the machi too. Did I leave anything out? :lol:

I find the best thing to do is to go and get a photo of a real nakago, then photoshop it next to this one. You will see the differences very fast indeed. No time right now to do that though.

 

Brian

 

 

Thanks, Brian...

 

I am looking at the photos I took of the nakago, and realize my (attempted?) assessment of the shinogi stopped at the nakago! In looking at the nakago itself, I do indeed see the uneven alignment of the shinogi. As far as the placement of the shinogi is concerned, this is something I never stopped to consider until reading your post. I just removed the kosirae from my four blades and compared the shinogi on the nakago from all four to the photos I took and see exactly what you mean. Thank you for the knowledge.

 

I now feel comfortable qualifying my feedback when I see my friend again next week, and will bring one of my nihonto for a side-by-side comparison to demonstrate the difference.

 

One last note on the kanji - while I have handled enough European blades to have developed a sense of gestalt when determining a piece's authenticity, I am still on that learning curve with regards to nihonto. However, the "character" of the kanji just seemed off somehow. Your collective determination has helped me incrementally increase my confidence and awareness level in this regard, and for that, I am grateful - this growth on my personal learning curve more than offsets the sense of disappointment in breaking the forthcoming bad news to a good friend.