Theme Assistance?

[reinhard]

And finally:

[Guido]

So far I don't see any defensiveness or a potential fight - only a discussion among some more or less learned members, naturally reflection their own preferences. But it seems that anybody who isn't able to use the magic word "nice" for each and every sword or fitting that is of Japanese origin, is immediately branded as a self-righteous party pooper.

 

O.k., I'm not going to point out the (to me obvious) differences between the examples Reinhard posted and those that started this thread. Let's instead do a group hug and sing Kumbaya.

 

Over and out.

[SwordGuyJoe]

Regardless of school, age, or the amount of acid the artist did prior to carving this piece, I am still going to sell it with the sword it was attached to - what seems to me to be a tired Yamato katana from the Muromachi era (w/ over 28" nagasa - over 30" before suriage). It is now listed on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0600514125

 

No reserve, so whether you like abnormal tsuba style or want to relive the glory days of the 60's, you should get a koto tsuba and katana for pretty cheap. I think it's 'up to' $320 (US) right now, so very low price for a blade and tsuba of this age. Thank you very much for the info and pinning it to a garden theme. It is greatly appreciated.

 

Edit: please read this post with tongue firmly in cheek

[Henry Wilson]

I am very sorry that Joe seems upset as it was me that started to question the "beauty" of all 庭園 tsuba in general (not specifically his). It was not my intention at all to annoy anyone and I wish Joe good luck with the E bay auction.

 

I am aware that ten zogan is not the sole trait of the Onin and I can kind of see the Onin influence now so thanks Reinhard for the spread of pics but ..... to say I am not convinced :| . Onin and the 庭園 theme tsuba to me seem to be poles apart although they do have vines in common. The base plates are total different, Onin are generally thin so the thicknesses... The inlay meaning the carving and materials used are different...

 

One more thing. The E bay listing at the link above says "Included is a tsuba from the late Koto/Early Shinto period." which I think means Late Muromachi / Momoyama / early Edo period. I am not so sure I totally agree with this very large time span. I would say your tsuba is early Edo at the earliest but more likely mid Edo.

 

Just my thoughts and again no offense intended.

[SwordGuyJoe]

Henry,

I am sure not upset and was joking. I am not emotionally attached to this item, so I was kidding about some of the posts here. It is a 'unique' piece, but I'd rather see it with someone who has an afinity for tsuba and will appreciate it. As always, I appreciate the groups discussion and I took no offense to anything said in this string.

[Henry Wilson]

Hi Joe

 

Thanks for the reply. I am glad that I misunderstood and that you are joking. Like I said I don't want to upset anyone.

 

All the best.

[Brian]

Welll..I'm with Guido on this one, and I really don't see any huge arguments here.

I would love to see us be able to express opinion, differ in opinions, and maybe even strongly disagree, without things ending up in arguments. As I have said before, it is in threads like these that we actually learn most. Great info and comparissons.

I must say that every time I "don't get" a particular tsuba, I wonder if it is just me, and maybe I am missing the big picture. Sometimes that may be true, but it is nice to see that others agree sometimes too. Similar to the whole "art movie" circuit. I still don't get what anyone saw in "Lost Highway" but maybe it is me who lacks culture :lol:

Anyways, I am here to say carry on with the hearty debates. It teaches me stuff, and I think most of our members are learning to be less touchy, take less offence, and agree to disagree.

 

Brian

[reinhard]

I didn't mean to step on anybody's toes. It was my intention to show the differences between early stages of tsuba-making, especially early attempts of pictorial design with inlays of colored metal, and crude fakes from later days. Distinction-line is not always obvious. Onin-zogan and Heian-Jo tsuba from middle to late Muromachi-period often look crowded, disorderly and far from refined taste. Compared to better examples of Ko-Kinko workers they have a rather naive and clumsy air. Nevertheless they are part of the history and development of tsuba. Personally I'm interested in a more refined style, but we should make and see the difference between early stages of development and sheer lack of craftsmanship of later fakes. Joe's tsuba has the potential to belong to the first category. The examples that followed have probably not. - Good stuff to start another thread with, but anyway. Here's a nice example of an early Heian-Jo tsuba from the former Lundgren collection. Crude workmanship and far from any refined taste, but still a "nice" example for early attempts of pictorial design.

 

reinhard

[Chishiki]

At best estimation I think mine dates to mid edo period, no earlier. In terms of tsuba it is an oddity, and the only reason I bought this one, was to study the theme, which we thought was a water way, and to look at its style of manufacture. Not mainline anything, probably country make. Maybe a garden or temple people commuted to and the tsuba were purchased as a momemto. (that's speculating) I wouldn't rate them as art pieces either, but a tsuba which is trying to portray a place on an iron plate, that's why they are so busy looking. A quirky tsuba, an oddity since the day it was made. Peace! Mark

[Surfson]

There is one motif with a rope looped around what looks like a woven basket. I have a fuchi with such a basket and it was explained to me that it is used as an anchor when filled with rocks during fishing.