Arsenal Stamps.

[Conway S]

Here is the signed side of the tang. From the pictures, there is no anchor visible. 

 

Conway

 

 

[Conway S]

[Jcstroud]

It reads Inaba  it is a signature believed to be shared by  Nakata Isamu Kanehide and his brother Matsubara Shozo the three digits are normally seen on   

RJT blades ,likely the work of Kanehide but that is just my guess there are others on this forum with much more expertise.

John S.

[Jcstroud]

Interesting symbol is the same as the first reference point ofthe 1940 navy spec drawing followed by what appears to symbols for 2 shaku could an approval stamp verifying it passed length spec ? Now that is what you call "spec."ulation.   I have only seen these on Inaba blades. 😁

 

John S.

[Bruce Pennington]

This has caused me to review my files on Inaba, and I've re-discovered this conversation where we found a couple links to the Inaba Tanrenjo or forge. Inaba Tanrenjo Discovered.  I have been mistakenly calling all mei with this stamp "Inaba", but the stamp is found on blades with two mei, actually.  This one shown by Conway is really Inaba, and the other is Hiratoshi.

 

Hiratoshi                                                                          Inaba

     

 

I have several navy blades on file with stamped numbers, but they are very few compared to army blades.  12 are mumei, 2 are Shigemitsu, 2 Mitsunobu, 4 Hiratoshi, and this 1 Inaba.  I also have one with the Tenshozan Tanrenjo mei - all stainless except the Shigetsugu & Mitsunobu blades. 

[Conway S]

Is this the stamp referring to the 2 shaku? Or something else? Not sure if you guys saw this post as it was on the previous page. 

 

Conway

13 hours ago, Conway S said:

Greetings, 

 

Has anyone identified this stamp? It's on an Inaba marked Kai Guntō. Thanks. 

 

Conway 

 

[Jcstroud]

In reference to this stamp I personally have not seen this one before but it looks like an entrance to a shrine "Inaba shrine" perhaps?....this shrine is located on the grounds of Gifu castle a beautiful location fyi.

John S.

[Stephen]

Looks Mukden

http://www.japaneses...dex.com/military.htm

[Bruce Pennington]

We’re going to need @Kiipu @BANGBANGSAN @SteveM on this one.  There is more to the character than is highlighted by the white powder.

[Kiipu]

The portion highlighted in white is 襾.  However, I agree with Bruce that this is not the complete character which looks more like 酒.  However, Trystan has forgotten more than have learned so take it with a grain of salt.

[SteveM]

Definitely looks like 酒 (sake, saka).

 

By itself it means liquor/wine. But I would guess it is shorthand for a location (just the same as 名 is shorthand for Nagoya arsenal). 

 

酒井 or 酒田 or 酒谷 or something like that. 

[BANGBANGSAN]

I’m with Steve,酒 for 酒井 or some other name with 酒。

[Bruce Pennington]

@Conway S 

Do you have more photos of the sword?  Any other markings on the nakago?

 

The only military place I know of (not that my knowledge of military manufacturing is that extensive!) is Osaka.  But they used a different kanji on blades. 阪

[Conway S]

@Bruce Pennington

 

See below. There is an anchor stamp. On the reverse side there is only the "酒"

 

Conway 

 

[Conway S]

[Bruce Pennington]

Great, thanks!  I think I see it close to the end, right?  Also, thanks for the additional "Inaba" stamp and stamped number "453".  Didn't have that one in the files!

 

Safe to assume this is in kaigunto fittings?

[Conway S]

Yes - Kai Guntō fittings. It has a quite shrunken leather-covered wood saya. I posted a picture of the tsuka in the "Kai Gunto Tsuka Question" thread. Overall, the hardware is not in the best shape. 

 

Conway

1 hour ago, Conway S said:

Greetings, 

 

Can anyone clarify if the black fabric same found on souvenir swords was also used on wartime production swords? And if so, when does this variation appear? I am referring to the sword pictured below, which is the Inaba sword I posted in the Arsenal Stamps thread. Thanks. 

 

Conway 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

3 minutes ago, Conway S said:

Yes - Kai Guntō fittings

Thanks Conway, just what I needed.  

 

You probably already know this, but that semegane that is split really goes much lower on the saya.  Might be able to move it back down there and glue the split cack together.

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce Pennington

伊奈波 兼波之（作）

 

[Jcstroud]

47 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

@Bruce Pennington

伊奈波 兼波之（作）

 

Hey,Trystan where did you find this one?

[Conway S]

I just noticed the painted character on the Takayama Masahiro posted in the NLF thread resembles the "I" 伊 in Inaba.

 

Conway

 

[Bruce Pennington]

11 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

@Bruce Pennington

伊奈波 兼波之（作）

 

Trystan,

What sort of gunto was this in?  Also, what are your thoughts?  Do you think he's saying his art name is Inaba Kanenami, or is he saying he is Kanenami of Inaba (forge)?

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, Conway S said:

Takayama Masahiro posted in the NLF thread resembles the "I" 伊 in Inaba.

Yes, I saw that too, Conway.  Just overcome by moving events to follow up.  I just checked Sesko's list of Masahiro, and he has EIGHT Showa era smiths listed!  

 

Inaba Tanrenjo was located in Seki (Noshu), and only one of the Masahiro in his list was from Gifu:

 

"MASAHIRO (正弘), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Masahiro” (正弘), real name Hattori Kazuichi (服部一市), born July 30th 1907, he worked as guntō smith"

 

So Inaba isn't part of his real name.  Maybe the mei is indicating he was Masahiro of Inaba Tanrenjo.  

[mecox]

Bruce, Hattori Masahiro is discussed here with examples:  

 

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, mecox said:

Bruce, Hattori Masahiro is discussed here with examples:  

Thanks Mal,

I checked your write-up and it states he worked at the Toyokawa forge, so maybe he's not our guy on this one.  The mei in all your examples is completely different too.

 

Seeing that Sesko lists 8 of them, and knowing that his record doesn't always have every WWII smith we come across, it's possible this Inaba Masahiro was simply one of the unknowns.

 

Another mystery.

[Jcstroud]

Thought this would be appropriate for the conversation.

[Bruce Pennington]

Yes, if I recall, that shrine was brought up in the discussion of the Inaba forge.  I think they are all connected.

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington

Bruce:

Could this be a fake sho stamp or possibly an attempt at removal (not saying the seller is responsible, just curious)? 

https://www.ebay.com...3:g:hSYAAOSw5KZk27O9

 

John C.

[Conway S]

@Bruce Pennington Check out page 30 left hand side of the pdf shown above. There is a Hattori Masahiro mei without the polisher reference. I assume the sword in souvenir fittings I am referencing is a Hattori Masahiro sword. It has the Takayama-to short & thick kissaki.

 

***I don't want to take this great thread on arsenal stamps on too much of a diversion... Let me know if there is a more appropriate thread to move this discussion to. Thanks. 

 

Conway 

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 8/20/2023 at 12:37 AM, Jcstroud said:

Hey,Trystan where did you find this one?

On FB,only this photo.