Arsenal Stamps.

[Kiipu]

I have run across several pronunciations for the 眞金入 stamp.  The character 眞 can also be written as 真.  The various pronunciations and discussions about them can be found at the links below.

2010 ma kane hisa or shin gane iru = Arsenal Stamps. Post #76.

2011 magane iri = Help with translations. Please!

2013 shin-gane iri = Masafusa

2015 shin-gane iri = Arsenal Stamps. Post #235.

[Bruce Pennington]

22 hours ago, Kiipu said:

various pronunciations

Thanks Thomas!  I've added the additional photos.  Seems these are showing up often on Masafusa blades.

What do you think of Morita-san's explanation: "It is formal that 眞金(shin-gane) pronounces as "Ma-gane"."?

"

[Kiipu]

It is a term that does not show up in the technical dictionaries.  Slough uses "shin-gane iri" in his book.  Whatever term you decide to use, just be sure to include the kanji characters. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Beginning the new year with the latest version of the Stamps Document, v. 7.3.  I'm starting to feel like it's final phase.  Barring any major new discoveries, or uncovering some of the "unknowns", we've all hit this pretty good, and I want to thank everyone who has participated in creating it.

 

7.3 includes some grammatical fixes, a couple of added kakihan, and a small intro to "Kamon (Family Crests) on blades" with 2 examples.  My favorite update is the discovery by Thomas (Kiipu) with an assist by Nick Komiya of a probable shop name for a navy dirk that has a Tosho script kanji on the guard.

Tohso mei are also seen on flags as shrine stamps.  I've recently seen the Emperor's stamp, and it was written in Tosho script.  Thomas found a shop named "Echizen’ya Tazaki Shōten" whose first kanji "越 is pretty darn close, close enough to list it as "likely".  That discussion can be found HERE at Warrelics.

 

Another Buddhist "flaming jewel" was added, for a total of 3.  Two are on Kanemune and Amahide blades, which is significant because Kanemune worked for Amahide at his forge (thanks Mal Cox!).  So this mark could be something they did, rather than something requested by a customer, or at least an "option" offered by the forge to customers.

on a Amahide blade

 

7.3 can be found HERE

[Kiipu]

Just when Bruce thought he was retired...

I do not recall ever noticing both sides of a dirk crossguard having been marked before.

Navy Military Short Sword Japanese Gunto Parts Tsuba 65x26mm 19186

[Bruce Pennington]

15 hours ago, Kiipu said:

both sides of a dirk crossguard

Thomas,

In the world of "gunto" I suppose we never get to retire!  Thanks for the fabulous picture.  I've added it to the Navy section of 7.4.

 

I thought I had never seen 2 stamps on a dirk before, too, but when I went to save this one to the files, look what I found! Ha!  I have so many files, now, I don't even know what I've got.

 

Toyokawa with Nakano Shoten:

 

Adding the one in your link before it goes dead:

Toyokawa plus Suya Shoten:

[Kiipu]

Quote

I wonder what the kanji stamped on the leather strap means?

 

Interesting 鉢 stamp on the leather strap.  Picture is upside down at the link though.

Senior NCO Sword

鉢
 

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Kiipu said:

 

Interesting 鉢 stamp on the leather strap.  Picture is upside down at the link though.

Senior NCO Sword

鉢
 

What is it, Thomas?  I don't recognize it, nor find it on the Army inspector reg chart.

 

Also, what is this (on the same sword):

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

What is it, Thomas?  I don't recognize it, nor find it on the Army inspector reg chart.

 

Also, what is this (on the same sword):

 

Bruce

It look like 恆-Constant  to me

PS:鉢 means POT

[Kiipu]

3 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

I don't recognize it, nor find it on the Army inspector reg chart.

 

The kanji character 鉢 does not show up in the 1943 inspection mark regulations nor am I aware of a sword company that uses that character..

[Kiipu]

Here is a big encircled anchor stamp.  It is on a single hanger naval sword.  Is this the late war one or the postwar one?

new Japanese navy sword

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice example of the Toyokawa stamp!  That is the post war souvenir made for the army PX.

[Kiipu]

11 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Nice example of the Toyokawa stamp!  That is the post war souvenir made for the army PX.

 

And another encircled anchor.  What about this one?

Late war IJN sword.

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Kiipu said:

What about this one?

That one is on a, for sure, late-war kaigunto.  And after seeing some good shots of the blade and nakago, adds some support to the possibility that the blades in the souvenir swords were unused surplus when the war ended.

[BANGBANGSAN]

I just saw this photo, noticed this mark on the Fuchi ,  don't think it is 家紋，what do you guys think? Is it mark mean to go through for the 駐爪 hole?

 

[Bruce Pennington]

On 1/24/2021 at 4:25 PM, BANGBANGSAN said:

mark on the Fuchi

Wow, that's a new one!  Good catch!  It's obviously manufactured into the design.  So, I agree with you that it seems unlikely to be a kamon.  Plus, I couldn't find a mon of this design.  Similar ones have 2 horizontal lines, not 1.  There's a Tsunemitsu shop that has an emblem very similar, but the line doesn't go all the way across:

 

A real mystery.  I like your idea about it marking where they want the chuso button.  In English, we say "X marks the spot".  Do you know if the Japanese have a symbol they use for "marking the spot?"

 

[Kiipu]

On 1/24/2021 at 3:25 PM, BANGBANGSAN said:

I just saw this photo, noticed this mark on the fuchi, don't think it is 家紋, what do you guys think?  Is it mark mean to go through for the 駐爪 hole?

 

An interesting find and a sharp eye to boot.  Do you have any other information on the sword, such as a mei or date?  It looks to be army judging by the fittings.

[BANGBANGSAN]

3 hours ago, Kiipu said:

 

An interesting find and a sharp eye to boot.  Do you have any other information on the sword, such as a mei or date?  It looks to be army judging by the fittings.

I only have one photo of this sword, it should be Type 98.I will try and see if I can get more information.

[Bruce Pennington]

Once again, I'm reminded of the axiom "When it comes to gunto, never say 'never' and never say 'always'"!  Reading Mal Cox' excellent article on "Seki Swordsmiths and Japanese Naval Swords", I came across this Kaigunto - Navy - gunto - with a Showa-stamped Kanenao blade.  All sources up to now have always (ooh, there's that word!) said that Showa stamps are "ONLY" found on Army blades.  And I've repeated that in the Stamps Doc.  Well, I guess that is going to be changed to "predominantly" found on Army blades!  The change will be in 7.4 when it comes out.

[BANGBANGSAN]

4 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Once again, I'm reminded of the axiom "When it comes to gunto, never say 'never' and never say 'always'"!  Reading Mal Cox' excellent article on "Seki Swordsmiths and Japanese Naval Swords", I came across this Kaigunto - Navy - gunto - with a Showa-stamped Kanenao blade.  All sources up to now have always (ooh, there's that word!) said that Showa stamps are "ONLY" found on Army blades.  And I've repeated that in the Stamps Doc.  Well, I guess that is going to be changed to "predominantly" found on Army blades!  The change will be in 7.4 when it comes out.

 

 

 

Yes that is a Showa stamp on the Kai Gunto, unless it's remount.Never say never to Gunto.

[Bruce Pennington]

I was also interested to read, in Mal's Seki/Navy article, that the Navy stamping doesn't seem to be present on their blades until 1942.  I'll have to add that to my Stamps Survey.  It brings up the question of "why not?"  Did the Navy just thumb their noses at the law which required stamps on non-traditionally made blades, which started around 1938 (or sooner)?  Does this indicate that the "law" wasn't a law at all, but an Army Regulation?  I wish we had documentation about the stamping "law."  This observation by Mal, that the Navy blade stamping began in 1942 coincides with the Army's assumption of control over ALL sword production at that same time.

[mecox]

5 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

I was also interested to read, in Mal's Seki/Navy article, that the Navy stamping doesn't seem to be present on their blades until 1942.  I'll have to add that to my Stamps Survey.  It brings up the question of "why not?"  Did the Navy just thumb their noses at the law which required stamps on non-traditionally made blades, which started around 1938 (or sooner)?  Does this indicate that the "law" wasn't a law at all, but an Army Regulation?  I wish we had documentation about the stamping "law."  This observation by Mal, that the Navy blade stamping began in 1942 coincides with the Army's assumption of control over ALL sword production at that same time.

Bruce, careful please I dont think I made that definitive statement.   I did say "indicated' after 1940,  and its referring to navy establishments and some later blades dont have it.    BTW this is a compilation, it ain't the Bible.

[Bruce Pennington]

4 hours ago, mecox said:

this is a compilation, it ain't the Bible.

Fair enough Mal.  I get excited sometimes and run my mouth before I dig into the facts!  I'll start tracking the Navy stamps and see what develops.  I think it's going to be a tougher study, though, as there are less Navy blades to tabulate and my rough impression of them is that more so than Army, they aren't dated very often.

[gustaf]

I was offered today this blade. It’s a true and verified bring back. Very interesting stamp that was already discussed here. Any thoughts on the added value of the stamp on otherwise ordinary showato?

[Bruce Pennington]

On 2/15/2021 at 5:05 PM, gustaf said:

added value

Carl,

Sorry for not  responding very quickly!  I have read (don't remember where) that the stamp does indicate that the blade is made of tamahagane, and therefore could be traditionally made.  So that can add value to a gunto for guys who want a gendaito.

[Bruce Pennington]

This is a new one, brought to my attention by @mecox and found on a Shigemitsu blade.   NO idea what it's significance is.  Kissing ducks?  Big mustache?  It's the forth blade found, now, with the Toyokawa anchor with another stamp underneath.  It's not a kao, because Shigemitsu has a distinct kao, and they are placed at the end of the nakago, not at the top like this. 

 

Mal also notice (got by me at first!) that the anchor has no circle!  Looking closely, I believe the anchor was hand-made, not a stamp like the norm.  No idea of the significance of that, either, if any.

 

(photo not of Shigemitsu, but simply for comparison)

[Kiipu]

On 1/24/2021 at 3:25 PM, BANGBANGSAN said:

I just saw this photo, noticed this mark on the fuchi, don't think it is 家紋, what do you guys think?  Is it mark mean to go through for the 駐爪 hole?

家紋 = kamon = family crest.

駐爪 = scabbard release button.

 

BangBangSan, I have no idea what it is or what it is for but here is a link to another.

Smallest mon?

Edited February 26, 2021 by Kiipu

[BANGBANGSAN]

3 hours ago, Kiipu said:

家紋 = kamon = family crest.

駐爪 = scabbard release button.

 

BangBangSan, I have no idea what it is or what it is for but here is a link to another.

Smallest mon?

I know what 駐爪 is.I was trying to say if that is "X marks for the 駐爪".

That 80's photo George post looks like the same mark on the Fuchi I post.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Got photo of other side handle of this sword ,it has 駐爪 already. So, what do you guys think this mark is?If not it's not "X marks for the 駐爪".

 

[Bruce Pennington]

"Whoa Nelly!"  Got a whole 'nuther ball game now.

 

The mon experts haven't come up with anything on this, so my inclination is to think it's a shop logo.  Hope we can find more.  I'm posting the one @george trotter posted and @Kiipu posted the link to: