Arsenal Stamps.

[Kiipu]

And another potential company logo can been seen in the fourth picture via a post by Stegel.

Meiji Era Enlisted Sword

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Kiipu said:

company logo

Good eye, Thomas!   Dang, another unknown!

 

The four bumps around the circle strike me as familiar, but I've looked through my files and can't find a similar one.  The center was different, but I could swear I've seen a circle with semi-circular bumps around the edges like that.

 

I checked Dawson and he doesn't have an example with this stamp.  All his are made by Solengen (sp?), and some have Japanese inspector stamps.  But this one looks like it was made by a Japanese shop, or at least the handle was.

[Bruce Pennington]

A few folks have been asking for a cover page and an index of pages for the Stamps Doc, so I've done it!  Version 7.0 includes my discovery of something Slough had known all along - the Yasugi Steel Co. stamp which is found on the blades of 3 smiths so far: Kanemichi, Katsumasa, and Masafusa.

 

Sorry for so many edits. But that's the beauty of digital documents, the new one's can simply replace the old ones on our devices!

The new version is posted on the NMB Downloads page here: 

 

[Brian]

Great work on adding those arsenal stamps to the Gallery @Bruce Pennington
Awesome examples. I was torn between adding an album for each type, and then in there adding multiple pics of each type. But I think you made up my mind for me. One very good example of each is enough. We are trying to get a good reference gallery, not to accumulate as many examples of the same ones. So one or 2 good pics of each is good. You chose good ones.
What you can do (or anyone else) is to add any description or explanation as a comment. Not much needed to be said, but for example under the Star stamp, I added a brief explanation.
Well done.

[davidequis]

The cover page looks good.

 

The pic of the mystery matsu stamp used by the Munetoshi brothers is an interesting choice. 

 

I have been exploring bladesmithing recently. In traditional Japanese blade production, matsu (pine) charcoal was as important as tamahagagane. Matsu charcoal could be cut by apprentices to the perfect size, and would burn with a perfect heat to produce perfect (nihonto) blades - other charcoals were inferior.

i believe the matsu stamp is a mark of quality or authenticity, rather than an arsenal stamp.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, davidequis said:

mystery matsu stamp

Thanks David!  It represents the unknowns we face in trying to study these WWII pieces of history.

 

I like your theory as we discussed on your Matsu Stamp thread.  After seeing other RJT certified blades with numbers, but not the Matsu, I'm leaning toward it being a personal mark chosen by the Yamagami brothers.  But your idea of it's meaning may have been what appealed to them as they chose a mark.

[Bruce Pennington]

10 hours ago, Brian said:

I added a brief explanation.

Thanks Brian, and nice work on the description you gave for the star stamp.  A bit better than anything I could have written.

 

I had thought the same thing as you did about adding poor examples with the good so that people could recognize a poor one for what it is, but there are so many permutations of poorly struck stamps that I decided to stick with the full image.

 

I'll keep adding to them as time allows.  Great idea, Brian, on the reference page!  Sometimes you just need a single picture to add to a discussion and this page is a quick and easy place to find what you need.

[Kiipu]

Here is a nice picture of a 岐 within a sakura stamp on the nakago mune.

Kuwayama Kanetaka

 

 

[Kiipu]

And another mystery marking for Bruce to ponder in his leisure hours!

Additional Mark on Tang - (Mano) MASAYASU

[Bruce Pennington]

4 hours ago, Kiipu said:

to ponder in his leisure hours!

Wish I had some!

 

Yes, it's time to beef up the "Unknowns" section of the Stamps Doc.  I PM'd the owner (inactive since 2017), hopefully I can get a pic without the red lines.  Thanks Thomas for tormenting me! Ha!

 

I reminds me of this one, but there's differences

[Bruce Pennington]

22 hours ago, Kiipu said:

marking

Thomas,

Excellent idea posting digital images of the stamps in the Gallery.  That way we can copy and paste them in the middle of discussions!

[Bruce Pennington]

Well, thanks to Thomas, Version 7.2 is posted.  It includes a beefed up section on the Unknowns, plus a section on the multiple hotstamps found on Amahide blades (thanks to Mal Cox and Neil Freeland for the multiple articles.  Excellent research and great pics!) and other smiths' blades with the Amahide stamp.  I also realized I'd never listed a "Sources" section, so that's been added.  Please let me know if I've left any sources out.  If I ever get around to a "Thanks to..." page, there's a number of people here at NMB that will be included in that!  Other minor rearrangements, and edits.

 

Link to Stamps Doc in Member Articles section

[Shamsy]

Under the unknown section, Bruce, there is a Nagoya Army Arsenal stamp on the bottom of a Type 95 saya throat-catch. That can be moved to known if you like. There are a few examples I've seen on Seki stamped 95s.

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Shamsy said:

Under the unknown section, Bruce, there is a Nagoya Army Arsenal stamp on the bottom of a Type 95 saya throat-catch. That can be moved to known if you like. There are a few examples I've seen on Seki stamped 95s.

Thanks Steve, that's the whole reason for listing the "unknowns"!  A few of us had worked that one over a while back with no success.  It looks like two wavy, parallel lines.  But now that you point out the Nagoya imagery, I can see what you're saying.  I'll make the chage (7.3 here we come!).

 

This one, right?

 

[Shamsy]

Yep, that's the one Bruce. Definitely the Nagoya stamp. I might be able to get you a better photo, but the stamps are all a but meh due to the tiny surface they can be added to.

[Bruce Pennington]

9 hours ago, Shamsy said:

Nagoya stamp. I might be able to get you a better photo

No need, Steve, I have some already, but thanks.  What I really needed was to make sense of that dang stamp, and you did it!

[Kiipu]

This is an enigma if I ever saw one.  A Type 100 with nakago mune inspection marks on a blade dated 1935!  There is little doubt in my mind that this is the coveted officer's Type 95 Sword that everyone has been looking for.  Not one of those hybrid affairs but a pure blood.

kanji characters on tang of pattern 44

 

(On a serious note, I have run into this kind of omission before on mei.  Most recently, on a Kanemasa.)

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Kiipu said:

This is an enigma if I ever saw one.  A Type 100 with nakago mune inspection marks on a blade dated 1935!  There is little doubt in my mind that this is the coveted officer's Type 95 Sword that everyone has been looking for.  Not one of those hybrid affairs but a pure blood.

kanji characters on tang of pattern 44

 

(On a serious note, I have run into this kind of omission before on mei.  Most recently, on a Kanemasa.)

Thomas,

As always, you're running about 5 miles ahead of me - Why do you feel this is one of the officer Type 95s?  It's a signed blade, so officer, in officer fittings.  It poses a mystery as to why a 1935 blade is in RS fittings, though.  Likely re-fitted at some point.

 

And I don't know enough about mei to know what kind of omission you mean.

 

Sorry!  Please catch me up!

[Shamsy]

I'm just confused. What is a Type 100? There is no such thing and I am not in favor of creating more false 'Types'. The thread linked is a RS sword. No one has been looking for any converted Type 95 that I am aware of? What we are looking for are converted Type 32 swords converted to look like 95s.

[Kiipu]

My jest about hybrids was referring to the combination swords that mix officer and enlisted sword components, such as below, and not the Type 32 conversions or experimentals. 

Has anyone seen this kind of saya on a type95 gunto before??

[Stegel]

"Sword humour" - nice! and wasn't wasted on me!  Unfortunately went straight over the heads of some people.

Contained tang stamps so has relevance here, and also 35 .. which would be model 95 and the throw off.

The give away was in the last statement  ->(On a serious note....

 

 

Yes, that's an old thread. I've already got that referenced away.

Very interesting scabbard and haven't seen any other like it since.

 

[Shamsy]

So some sort of 'humour' then lol. Right *thumbs up*. Easy to say you 'get it' after the explanation ;-P.

 

I actually thought you may have been referring to an early dated blade in RS mounts, which considering that the long held and erroneous date of 1944 was thought to be their official date of approval (based on blade dates and until Nick found the official documentation), an example of earlier date would have been interesting.

 

I seem to remember when you first joined NMB that Stegal disliked your jests, but I'm glad that they are now considered high-humour .

[Stegel]

i was writing a reply as he sent his response.........sorry if you take it the wrong way.

[Shamsy]

Don't ever be sorry. Offense is taken, not given and I have not taken offense, I just don't really get the humour. 

 

I was actually quite excited to think of an early dated RS, but I cannot read mei, which appears to be my downfall, having taken the statement at face value.

 

It is just the difficulty in conveying sarcasm and other idioms in a written medium.

[Bruce Pennington]

Dang, I'm always bad at spotting wit & sarcasm online!  Actually that was a good one Thomas!

 

And "Whew" I'm glad you two lovebirds kissed and made-up!  Can't have our 2 biggest Type 95 experts going at it! Ha!

[Shamsy]

We were never fighting, Bruce! Don't read too much into it, it was supposed to be a light ribbing among mates. Like myself, you missed the 'humour/sarcasm' of Thomas's post and took the post at face value. Then my post has been read as an offended response, which was not what I was intending to convey at all.

 

The minor lesson here is to be mindful that written word does not contain the same inflection as oral and can be misunderstood or confusing.

 

I believe all the 'cool kid's' put /s after sarcasm so that it is not misconstrued. Let me add some emoji to my original reply so that it reads in the tone intended. 

[Stegel]

It's all COOL,  just Shakin' da tree BOSS !!

 

[Bruce Pennington]

See, even you missed my light-hearted attempt to "bust your chops", do a little ribbing.  I'm retired now, and one of the things I miss from work was the opportunity to mix it up with my fellow workers, joking, teasing, etc.  You guys are my friends and I miss being able to do that with you.  But the text environment just doesn't lend itself to that.  There's no facial expression, body language, tones of voice. Oh well.

 

One thing this conversation has emphasized though, is what is being talked about on The Secret of Success thread on Izakaya.  This conversation would have gone nuclear on some of the other collector forums that I frequent.  But that really doesn't happen much here.  There's a respect that everyone carries for others, that prevents that from happening.

 

SO, back to STAMPS!

[Kiipu]

Due to a recent post, I decided to followup on that 1935 blade.  It is a bit of a long shot as the post is old but worth the effort none the less.

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/32732-stamp-survey/?do=findComment&comment=354106

 

I was going to post this in another thread about kabutogane markings; but, I simply can not find it.

Opinions of WW2 type 98 officers sword please!!!

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, Kiipu said:

I was going to post this in another thread about kabutogane markings; but, I simply can not find it.

Opinions of WW2 type 98 officers sword please!!!

That has driven me nuts, too, Thomas.  I thinks it must have been tacked onto another thread and the quality kabutogane w/stamps issue was a tangent.  The one you linked to is in the "Unknowns" section of the Stamps Doc, but I've added that one to the files.  Nice to see another example.

 

On another topic from that thread, that's only the 2nd "NA" stamped 1941 blade, and it's Jan '41, so quite early.