Arsenal Stamps.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Thanks Steve

[waljamada]

Whats this stamp? A swordsmith's stamp?

[BANGBANGSAN]

鍛 -Forge

[waljamada]

BangBang. Oh, seems a mundane stamp. Thought it might be a bit more special. That blades in rough shape but in the silver gunto mounts that another discussion has been talking about.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Tan stamp, means it's traditionally forged from memory.

[Bruce Pennington]

Both Trystan and John are correct. Fuller says of it: " ‘Tan’ or ‘Kitau’ stamp. Literally ‘to forge’ or ‘forged’. Very scarce." Don't know any more about it than that, though.

[Bruce Pennington]

Stamps Doc 5.1 - a couple more hotstamps added; some editorial cleaning; slight re-arrangment of some pictures. No major changes, but enough for an update (and maybe I just need something to do since there's not much going on!!!)

Stamp 5.1.pdf

[Bruce Pennington]

Adding this from Grev's thread ( Identical to the "A" with tiny star of Neil's IJA tsuba.

[Bruce Pennington]

Breaking news on late-war Type 95 stamps in a circle!  Often seen on Jinsen made blades, they are an empty circle, a circle with 1, 2, or 3 horizontal lines inside, and they are Category marks for fitness for combat.  The circle with 2 lines is a down-grade, "not for combat use", but can be used for training, schools, etc.  

Comes from new revelations on Warrelics, here:  

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/evolution-Japanese-army-steel-helmet-1918-1945-revised-expanded-version-589930-11/

Here is a blade with the Jinsen "He" and beside it is a circle with 2 lines.

[Bruce Pennington]

Stamps Doc 5.3

 

Adds the Category 2 downgrade

Cleans up the Star stamp discussion

Replaced a missing Roman numeral picture

Enlarges and straightens photos where possible.

Stamp 5.3.pdf

[vajo]

Great job Bruce - thanks again for your work. Its a pleasure to read in.

[waljamada]

Here's an interesting hot stamp ww2 blade signed Tadahiro in kai gunto mounts with a family mon.  Not sure what the hot stamp means.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Adam!  That's Tadahiro's hot-stamp.  I've never heard if the image has a specific meaning.  It's always reminded me of a sword, but the "handle" looks like leaves.  Maybe someone will let us know!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Seem to recall seeing this on Kabuto Maedate, it could be a variation of a Kamon or classic Buddhist imagery.

[Mark Confort]

Here is an unidentified manufacturer stamping on my Type 95.  There is conjecture it may be the same manufacturer as the stamp that looks similar but with a "K" in the center, thought to be a company named Kobe in Tokyo I believe.  It's too bad it is unidentified, maybe someday that will change.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Mark,

Thanks, that's a nice example.  I haven't tracked the serial numbers on these, but this is a fairly early one!  I'll forward to Stegel and Shamsy to see what they say. 

Also, one of our members has just obtained an old book on sword and fitting shops.  Maybe he'll find something for us.

[BANGBANGSAN]

9 hours ago, Mark Confort said:

Here is an unidentified manufacturer stamping on my Type 95.  There is conjecture it may be the same manufacturer as the stamp that looks similar but with a "K" in the center, thought to be a company named Kobe in Tokyo I believe.  It's too bad it is unidentified, maybe someday that will change.

 

 

 

Mark 

This Arsenal mark with "一" should be the same one with "K", both from 神户商店 Kobe shop, the owner's name is 神户一幸 Kobe Ikkou .He first uses the first letter "K" from his family name, then changes to first kanji "一" from his last name later.

[Mark Confort]

43 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Mark 

This Arsenal mark with "一" should be the same one with "K", both from 神户商店 Kobe shop, the owner's name is 神户一幸 Kobe Ikkou .He first uses the first letter "K" from his family name, then changes to first kanji "一" from his last name later.

Thank you BBSAN, that is great to have confirmation of the manufacturer.  Is it known yet whether the Kobe Ikkou marking (or any of the manufacturer markings) is for the mountings, the blade or the complete sword?

[BANGBANGSAN]

26 minutes ago, Mark Confort said:

Thank you BBSAN, that is great to have confirmation of the manufacturer.  Is it known yet whether the Kobe Ikkou marking (or any of the manufacturer markings) is for the mountings, the blade or the complete sword?

It seems 壽屋 飯島 神戶 all make mount and blade of Type 95 sword, maybe final assemble in Tokyo first arsenal?

You should check this topic of Type 95 start by Nick Komiya

 https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/short-development-history-type-95-gunto-676112/

 Shamsy,Stegel, Bruce Pennington, Kiipu are all in there.

 

[Kiipu]

A Sadaroku kokuin can be found at the link below along with a translation by Morita san.

"What Exactly Is A Kokuin On A Gunto?"

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/21000-what-exactly-is-a-kokuin-on-a-gunto/

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Kiipu said:

A Sadaroku kokuin

Thank you Thomas!  I had one, but this one is a much better picture (plus, while switching them, I noticed I spelled Sadaroku wrong!).  Now updated.

[Bruce Pennington]

New development from our World Famous Researcher - Thomas (Kiipu) - on a possible relationship between the "岐" Gifu and the Seki Shoten Co    

"The maker is listed in Japanese documents as Seki Cutlery 関刃物 and used the character 岐 as a logo. However, there were two entities that started with those characters, Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Society 関刃物工業組合 and Seki Cutlery Company, Limited 関刃物株式會社. Unfortunately for collectors, it is not known which one was the manufacturer of these swords.

Starting in the 82,000 range [speaking here about Type 95 NCO gunto], the company and logo changed to Seki Sword Company, Limited 関刀剣株式會社. This company was identified by means of a brochure that included the logo on the cover!"   Discussion found HERE ON WARRELICS

 

So, at least on Type 95's, the Gifu 岐 is the logo of the Seki Cutlery Co. which changed to . after the 82000 serial number.

 

It is not known if the Gifu in sakura found on officer blades is of the same company, or if it is an Army inspector stamp, or even of the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Society (which I think would be a likely organization inspecting blades).

 

Thomas, please jump in and correct me if I have understood this incorrectly!

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, see does this WW2 advertisement help? 

[Bruce Pennington]

Quite possibly!  But only if someone will translate for us!

 

Help!

[BANGBANGSAN]

12 hours ago, IJASWORDS said:

Bruce, see does this WW2 advertisement help? 

This is Ad from 阿部刀劍店（Abe sword shop)

From right to left says:

鑑定 Identification
刀劍研磨 Sword Polishing
軍刀外裝 Gunto Fitting
白鞘侟 Shira Saya
武器，小道具 Weapon,Props

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

That’s a great transition Trystan, thanks!

I’m guessing the detail on that store emblem isn’t going to be good enough to tell if it’s different than the Seki emblem or the same.

 

To me, when I zoom, it seems to have a single circle, not the double one of Seki.

[Bruce Pennington]

Forgive me if this stamp has already been posted, but a guy over on Warrelics has a nice navy dress saber with the "N in Diamond" stamp.  Richard Fuller says it's been seen on navy dirks, but didn't know it's source.

 

If someone has any insight on this, I'd appreciate it!

 

found HERE

[Stegel]

 

Here's one i came across just recently on a Navy dirk.

Adding it here as i don't remember seeing it in this thread before.

Toyokawa Naval Arsenal Stamp

[Bruce Pennington]

11 hours ago, Stegel said:

Here's one i came across just recently on a Navy dirk.

That's a great example, Ernie!  Fuller says that style stamp is found on dirks, but I had never seen an example.  I have seen a couple on seppa, but that's my first dirk.  Thanks!

[davidequis]

On 7/25/2010 at 3:28 AM, Ted Tenold said:

Here is an example of the very curious "Matsu" stamp. It is a very rarely encountered mark, and its origin and purpose seems to be unknown.

 

The pictured gendaito with this mark is a very nicely hand forged work by Munetoshi, who also signed Hidemune. He was a student of Kasama Shigetsugu. Other oshigata I have seen did not display this "matsu" mark, so it is inconsistently found on his works. My speculation is that this is an identifying mark for a particular shop or broker who may have ordered the blade on behalf of an officer. The mark is documented in Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945 by Richard Fuller and Ron Gregory. It is noted in this book that blades found with this mark were mounted in late 1944 Shingunto koshirae. This blade is indeed mounted consistantly.

Another Munetoshi, October, 1942.

carries the same matsu stamp.

In addition, all fittings carry the same number as pictured.

A final point of interest, there appears to be a set of marks that the experts may recognise (circled on pic) - probably originally ink or paint.