Arsenal Stamps.

[Kiipu]

I rotate the second marke, it kind of look like 弘道 ，but I'm not very certain.There is a Showa smith name 丹羽弘道 Niwa Hiromichi though。

Or,from right to left could be 直弘，one Showa smith name 柳川直弘 Yanagawa Naohiro...

let's see what Thomas think about this mark.

 

Looks like this stamp is all sorted out now.  As regards the first character, it appears to be another one of those old characters.  A real stinker trying to get them to display properly too.  If you cut and paste it, the character frequently defaults to the new one!  Hopefully everyone can see it below but if not follow the link.

直 = 直

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/直

Edited October 28, 2019 by Thomas

[Kiipu]

The 社 or 社 [sHA] was an Imperial Japanese Army inspection stamp for use by each civilian/private factory 各民間工場.  Any private factory working on army contracts could use this inspection stamp.  Either the old style or the new style character can be found stamped on parts. 

社 = 社

 

Apparently, the old character above and to the left is not displaying on some computer devices.  The character can be seen at the link below.  It is in the Japanese section listed under kyūjitai.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/社

[Bruce Pennington]

Another Japanese army inspection mark used by the Matsuyama Branch Office of Kokura Army Arsenal.

山 = yama

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-9?do=findComment&comment=183735

Thomas,

On this post, you mentioned the Matsuyama branch office. In a recent email, Richard Fuller mentioned a "Matsuyama shop." Are we talking about the same thing? Was Matsuyama a sword and/or koshirae manufacturer? Or is this just an Army arsenal inspector organization?

 

On a connected note, it just occured to me that the "matsu" and "yama" stamps are probably 2 peas-in-a-pod - from the same inspection office - Matsuyama - just like the 2 Type 95 stamps of the Kobe factory we just figured out.

 

Matsu yama

[Kiipu]

Thomas,

On this post, you mentioned the Matsuyama branch office. In a recent email, Richard Fuller mentioned a "Matsuyama shop." Are we talking about the same thing? Was Matsuyama a sword and/or koshirae manufacturer? Or is this just an Army arsenal inspector organization?

 

Sorry, we are not talking about the same thing.  The 山 inspection mark is just an "arsenal inspector organization."

山 = Matsuyama Branch Office 松山出張所 of Kokura Army Arsenal 小倉陸軍造兵廠.

 

Possibly, Fuller san is referring to the company mentioned in the thread below?

Koshirae Fitters Stamping Blades

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/28883-koshirae-fitters-stamping-blades/?do=findComment&comment=292806 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Thomas

[Bruce Pennington]

Sorry, we are not talking about the same thing.  The 山 inspection mark is just an "arsenal inspector organization."

山 = Matsuyama Branch Office 松山出張所 of Kokura Army Arsenal 小倉陸軍造兵廠.

My understanding of the arsenals has always been slim-to-none. Help me understand this better, please. Did the Kokura Arsenal have "branch offices" in multiple cities? If so, do you know where? Was this true of the other arsenals?

[BANGBANGSAN]

Sorry, we are not talking about the same thing.  The 山 inspection mark is just an "arsenal inspector organization."

山 = Matsuyama Branch Office 松山出張所 of Kokura Army Arsenal 小倉陸軍造兵廠.

 

Possibly, Fuller san is referring to the company mentioned in the thread below?

Koshirae Fitters Stamping Blades

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/28883-koshirae-fitters-stamping-blades/?do=findComment&comment=292806 

So,maybe the "松” mark is also for 松山出張所?

[Kiipu]

So, maybe the "松” mark is also for 松山出張所?

 

Not likely as the 松 inspection mark was used by the Ōsaka Supervisory Unit 大阪監督班 of Kokura Army Arsenal 小倉陸軍造兵廠.

[Kiipu]

(top right) Tai(sha) stamp and appears on late war blades made by smiths associated with the Izumo Seiko steel works. Located In Shimane. The forge was located near the Izumo Taisha shrine and by 1945 the country was in dire need of divine assitance, hence the Tai or Dai stamp on some blades to involk the spirits of the Taisha.

The link in the quoted post above is broken so use the one below.

 

Iwami Yoshikoyo Gendaito

Post #1

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/6628-iwami-yoshikoyo-gendaito/

Stamped on the nakago mune twice is 江. This is an Imperial Japanese Army inspection mark used by the Matsue Supervisory Unit of Kokura Army Arsenal 小倉陸軍造兵廠松江監督班.

江 = e

[Bruce Pennington]

Thomas,

Fabulous stuff! Please see my PM on creating a new inspector chart.

 

A new one! And while this one is actually engraved, like mei, it says "Inspected"

 

Found here: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1021613

 

[Bruce Pennington]

We've started a new chart to organize all these inspector stamps that Thomas has been I.D.ing for us! I'll add it to the Stamps Doc shortly.

 

Inspector Chart.docx

[Bruce Pennington]

Thought I'd correct our discussion on this one. While it seemed it might be a "saka" stamp, I'm pretty sure now that it's the "Se", second inspection mark of the Kokura Arsenal

From Ohmura:

　 Second Factory 廠Inspection mark Army Arsenal Kokura Second Factory inspection mark: "Se".

A correction to my correction - I am slow, but trainable! At the time I wrote that, I didn't know what the Saka stamp was for, nor did I know that there was an Osaka Army Arsenal that was using it. I learned from Eric that the smith was Nagamitsu, who worked in the Osaka arsenal region, so the original opinion that this stamp was the Saka stamp was likely correct. I'm adding it to the Stamps doc.

 

If anyone has a better image of the Saka stamp than this, I'd appreciate seeing it.

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Another sword with the Naohiro stamp: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MINTY-WWII-Japanese-Samurai-Sword-KYU-GUNTO-Shin-Gunto-KATANA-World-War-2/223736355853?hash=item3417b9dc0d:g:fyMAAOSwDMtdrRAC

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Alrighty then! Thomas and I have compiled as complete a list of officer blade inspection stamps as I have ever seen (Thanks Thomas!!!). I don't know why the PDF converter splits the new Inspector Chart when it's all on the same page in Word. I'm attaching the chart as a separate doc in case someone wants it all on one page...

 

Inspector Chart.pdf

[Kiipu]

Attached is one I never did find out about, Unsigned Katana with full length HI and fine hanyaki hamon. Mounted in Kyu Gunto army mounts and with two Mon.

 

Naohiro 直弘 stamp.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-2?do=findComment&comment=58285

 

Stamp identified four pages later.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-6?do=findComment&comment=109364

 

In my opinion, this stamp has been struck three times!

[Bruce Pennington]

Apologies to everyone who downloaded the previous Stamps Doc, it was butchered a bit by the Word to PDF converter! I found a better one and have attached a clean pdf version of the latest document.

 

Stamp 4.3 (2).pdf

[Alex Genikov]

Hello everyone!

I am a new member here, but my interest in Nihonto goes back for a few years back.

My ,specialization' is to repair and restor neglected blades and give them a new life where possible.

I've completed a few projects by now with the good resalts recognised by the fellow collectors as well.

Recently, by chance, I've became an owner of a few so called gunto swords and the quest for information leaded

me to your wonderful site. A couple of hrs of research produced unswears on all my questions, thank you.

To add to this topic I would like to post this picture of the nakago with the 'HE' stamp insp. mark of the Heijo factory Jinsen arsenal,

which may help others to identify similar stamps as well. There is the only this stamp on nakago, it is mumei.

I have another question or two, but it will be later on other topic.

 

As for now all the best for All Alexander G or Alex

[Bruce Pennington]

Alex,

 

Welcome! If you go to your personal profile page, you can set your first name into your posts so you don't have to type it in every time.

 

That stamp is a new one on me! I am no Japanese language expert, but it doesn't seem the same as the "he" stamps I'm familiar with on the Type 95s (I'll post one for comparison). What kind of fittings are on this blade - army, navy?

 

[Alex Genikov]

Bruce, thanks

It is a full set of army fittings numbered 395 on all pieces other side of nakago included.

Beautiful blade with the straight hamon and fine jihada present. No arsenal stamps present either.

You right this stamp looks more like hachi (eight) then anything.

Maybe it is something different after all.

I am surprised such a nice blade not signed! Maybe some kind of special order.

Anyway, now it looks like it need more research. Lets see how it'll look like after polish,

not soon though.

[Brian]

Alex,
Just some well intended advice...
If you intend to stick around here, I would not mention or discuss ANYTHING to do with amateur or self-taught polishing. This is a banned topic here with no exceptions.
Skip that topic, and all will be good here.

Best,
Brian

[Alex Genikov]

Brian,

 

Thank you for an advice.

Somehow it slipped my mind. 

Will try to be more careful in the future.

 

Best regards

[IJASWORDS]

Alex, I think Brian's advice should have gone a bit further. Not only don't discuss it, but unless you are a trained polisher, don't do it. 

[IJASWORDS]

Hey Bruce, are these stamps of use to you?

[Bruce Pennington]

I haven't been collecting koshirae stamps on a large scale. I have a small section in the Stamps Doc about them. I just thought you had started a thread on it, but couldn't find it. Here's the one I came across

 

[Alex Genikov]

How about this one

The left side is numbered

and the right side... I'll let you geuss

[Bruce Pennington]

How about this oneThe left side is numberedand the right side... I'll let you geuss

Alex,

Haven't EVER seen anything like that! But since we're in the guessing mode - looks to me like there were numbers on the right side that have been "x"ed out with the same kind of X seen at the top of the numbers on the left.

 

I've seen numbers filed off of saya drags by factory repair teams, then a new number re-struck. Maybe this is what we're seeing, but I can't see why fittings would be re-numbered. But then, as I wrote that, I realized the piece may have come from an original gunto that was damaged, and as they were being re-fitted onto a new blade, the fitters wanted to number it accordingly to the new pieces during assembly.

 

Just an idea.

[Alex Genikov]

Bruce,

You are right about the "x'ed numbers on the right.

What I can see on the left is 'x'ed number 394.

My guess is its been struck wrongly by someone(not 395 as the rest of the parts)

Then its been ordered to restruck on the left and save the already fitted part.

Here you are the history on the run.

[Kiipu]

Does anyone know what size in millimeters these encircled anchors 丸に錨 are?

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-2?do=findComment&comment=57878

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-4?do=findComment&comment=81158

[Bruce Pennington]

Does anyone know what size in millimeters these encircled anchors 丸に錨 are?

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-2?do=findComment&comment=57878

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-4?do=findComment&comment=81158

I'm on a work-trip, so hopefully someone can make some measurements of their anchor stamps for Thomas. I'll measure mine when I get home.

 

In the meantime I'm trying to firm up the dateline on the use of the Showa stamp. From what I read in the Fuller and Ohmura works:

 

Prior to 1939 - Seki Guild used the Seki Stamp

1939 - early 1942 - Seki Guild assigned to use the Showa Stamp; Nagoya Arsenal used Seki Stamp

1942 - 1945 - Arsenals went back to own stamps, smith groups (Seki, Gifu, etc) reclaimed their stamps

 

This seems to fit, but as in "All things Gunto" Ohmura shows a blade, on the very page he lays out this discussion, that has a Showa stamp, yet is dated Oct 12, 1937 (Showa 12).!!!

 

Here again, the exception to the rule.

 

Ohmura's discussion found here: http://ohmura-study.net/211.html

[16k]

Bruce, Thomas, Nick, and all others who have contributed to the Stamp chart, I want to congratulate you, you’ve done a remarkable job, one that is, I think, the ultimate reference.

 

Just, thank you for this detective work, and much, much respect!

[Bruce Pennington]

Does anyone know what size in millimeters these encircled anchors 丸に錨 are?

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-2?do=findComment&comment=57878

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-4?do=findComment&comment=81158

Thomas, my Toyokawa anchor is 5.37 mm. If you include the circle it’s 6mm.