Arsenal Stamps.

[Ooitame]

Hi Bruce, yes it is on the nakago mune.

Hi George, thanks for the info.

[Bruce Pennington]

Guys,

looks like the kanji for SAKA (Osaka) on the mune (struck sideways). This appears in tiny form on some gendaito the same as tiny seki and na stamps appear on RJT swords (both on the nakago shinogi-ji and nakago mune). Can't remember exactly, but might be seen on Nagamitsu and some others. I'm sure it has been mentioned in the longer posts on stamps.

Regards,

 

Thanks George! I think that's it. Refresh my memory - Wasn't Osaka an arsenal before it was renamed to one of the main ones?

[george trotter]

Hi Bruce/Eric,

I am not particularly knowledgeable on the Zoheito deatails. Officer's Military Arsenal Swords were made by gendaitosho working within the army arsenal system (RJT usually worked out in the prefectures).

The arsenal swords had the tosho mei and a stamp indicating the arsenal where he worked.

In the mid showa period (if not earlier?) Osaka was making swords ...can;t really say when/if Osaka Arsenal was name-changed Bruce, sorry, just don't know.

.

In WWII The gendaito Zoheito section for officer's swords employed:

Osaka Arsenal:: Gassan Sadakatsu, Masakiyo.(I think the saka stamp has been reported on Sadakatsu's work?).

Kokura Arsenal:  Hakuryushi Tadataka,  Taira no Sadashige, Kanenobu.

 

I think other RJT made gendaito that were inspected in the various arsenals before receiving their star stamp were also marked on the nakago mune. I have seen them with "na", "ko", "seki" and if I remember correctly also "gi". I think some blades by Nagamitsu have been seen with "saka" also.

 

BTW Eric, who made the sword you have with the "saka" stamp?

 

This mune marks question would be good project for a researcher Bruce!!!!

 

Hope this helps,

[Ooitame]

Hi George, this is on a Nagamitsu, mei is Nagamitsu Saku, with the two strokes in Naga. It is on a sword brought down for inspection for a family friend. This sword looks gendaito, judging by the hamon and hada.

[Bruce Pennington]

George, I had mixed a memory on that Osaka question - According to Ohmura's discussion, on the Type 95 stamps page, there was an "Ogura Army Arsenal" that was renamed "Tokyo".

[george trotter]

Hi Guys,

Yes Nagamitsu, I was pretty sure I had seen the stamp on his work before.

 

Ogura...Ok. I know that the Akebana Arsenal is in Tokyo also...that's where the 5000 surrendered swords saved from destruction after WWII were stored (later repolished by the NBTHK and returned to their respective Prefecture Museums). I am not sure but Akebane  might still be an Army facility?

Regards,

[Edward S]

Hi One and All,

 

Here’s one for the collection it appears to be figure ‘8’ or similar that has been struck in TO a KANEMICHI 1943.

 

I am not sure what it is buts it’s there. Any info on this particular stamp would be welcome.

 

Edward S

[Ooitame]

Thanks George and Bruce, three more questions... What is the 313 for? I have seen conflicting information stating stocking number or possibly contract number. Can this number and or saka stamp be used to narrow down a date range of forging or group assigned to? Last question, why stamp some as this one is and paint numbers on others?

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi One and All,

 

Here’s one for the collection it appears to be figure ‘8’ or similar that has been struck in TO a KANEMICHI 1943.

 

I am not sure what it is buts it’s there. Any info on this particular stamp would be welcome.

 

Edward S

Edward,

 

I'm sorry but I don't have any info on that one. I've added it to my Stamps document, under "unknowns" for now.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks George and Bruce, three more questions... What is the 313 for? I have seen conflicting information stating stocking number or possibly contract number. Can this number and or saka stamp be used to narrow down a date range of forging or group assigned to? Last question, why stamp some as this one is and paint numbers on others?

Eric,

 

What kind of blade is this on?

 

The first kanji is the katakana for "i", like the Mantetsu blades. But a Mantetsu would have a "TO" Tokyo arsenal inspector stamp.

 

Generally speaking, no one has been able to demonstrate a purpose behind these numberings. All speculate they are sequential contract or production numbers. I have been collecting Mantetsu numbers to try to observe whether they follow a sequential pattern year by year, but my sample is too small, and isn't following a pattern I can point to yet. They are likely different from the painted numbers in that the painted ones are thought to be there to keep the blade with it's matched koshirae fittings as it goes through polish.

[Ooitame]

Hi Bruce, thanks for the explanation, its on a Nagamitsu Saku. If TO is for Tokyo, are you familiar with what the katakana 'i' inspection mark stands for?

 

That is quite the noble project. My best wishes to your success.

[Bruce Pennington]

Eric,

 

I've never heard, nor seen, a reason for using katakana with numbers. The implication would be to keep track of blades made under differing contracts, but that's speculation only.

[earl]

I believe this is a Seki Arsenal stamp but not sure. We used corn starch to make it easier to see.

[Bruce Pennington]

I believe this is a Seki Arsenal stamp but not sure. We used corn starch to make it easier to see.

Yes, Early, good job dusting it. Seki for sure.

[Bruce Pennington]

I don't believe I've posted my Stamps document on this thread. I originally posted it on a new thread, but realized it would be useful here, too. It's a compilation of all the discussions and documents I could find on blades stamps. Feel free to download/print and use. Not to be sold or used for commercial puposes as most of the info is from copyrighted sources.

Stamps (1).pdf

[vajo]

Very good compendium Bruce!

 

I would like to give a picture from my collection to the patent stamps in better quality. Maybe it is usefull.

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

This is discussed on several current threads, but relevant here, in case someone is only seeing this here: The mystery of the "W" stamp on Mantetsu blades may have been solved. Nick Komiya, on Warrelics, posted a document requiring the Dalian factory to supply 5,500 unfinished blades to the Tokyo 1st Arsenal. Se had already narrowed the source of the stamp to the Tokyo arsenal, and this would explain the stamp on some Mantetsu blades.

 

Four of the 6 smiths with W stamps are also associated with the Tokyo area, so only 2 smiths, from Seki, have W's that seem unexplained.

[Bruce Pennington]

I don't think this one has been posted yet. It's a single kanji used for "Good Luck".

[BANGBANGSAN]

I don't think this one has been posted yet. It's a single kanji used for "Good Luck". GoodLuck.png

Bruce

Cool stuff there! I think this 福 maybe means 福岡（Fukuoka）or 福島（Fukushima)instead of 福（Lucky）。

Both福岡（Fukuoka）and 福島（Fukushima)has few 陸軍受命刀匠(Rikugun Jumei Tosho) in WW2.

[Bruce Pennington]

Hm, I may have to amend my comment on this on my Stamps document. Are those smith names or factories?

[BANGBANGSAN]

Hm, I may have to amend my comment on this on my Stamps document. Are those smith names or factories?

Both 福岡（Fukuoka）and  福島（Fukushima) are the name of city.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Smith from 福岡（Fukuoka）

小山信光

小山信房

田中正國

田中一切

武藤光弘

武藤秀弘

守次則定

守次行宗

末次繁光

小宮國光

竹原宗光

梶原廣光

河村幸光

野田吉國

古賀久國

柴田一祐

松永光保

瓜生信廣

井上信行

 

 

Smith from  福島（Fukushima)

關本頼正

日下部重道

塚本正和

猪狩保一

渡邊保定

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok, and update on Fuku:

From Chris S. (Vajo): According to Marcus' book, the blade was made by "Morimitsu for Fukuoka".

 

So, it's looking like other municipalities, like Seki, Gifu, etc, were using stamps (Ok, I know Seki was a Guild, and the Nagoya Arsenal hyjacked it a bit too, but it was still a province).

[vajo]

This smith’s given name was Tatsumi Kinzo, and he was born May 9th, 1898. Morimitsu was from Fukuoka and was a student of the famous gendai smith Suetsugu Shigemitsu, along with Oyama Nobumitsu. He also signed Chikugo Kuroki ju Morimitsu. (from Rays description).

 

Suetsugu Shigemitsu was also from Fukuoka. He was the at the lower branch of Chikuzen Tosho Suetsugu. He belonged to Nihonto forging school, Kyushu Teikoku University.

[IJASWORDS]

Hey Bruce, I have a Spring 1944 Mantetsu with a small Nanman/Ren/ stamp. Below this stamp is a "rail" stamp but with out the surrounding M for Manchurian Railway. Have you got any information on this cross section of a rail stamp?   

[Bruce Pennington]

Neil, I have seen that combination once or twice. I don’t know the significance of the rail minus the “M”, (I have to admit I never realized the broken circle around the rail WAS an M until now!!!). I’m doing some research to educate myself about the difference between the Ren and Nan stamps, the Mukden vs Nanman arsenals. I believe the Mantetsu factory was supplying unfinished blades to these arsenals, so maybe the stamp is in recognition of the source (Mantetsu) but the missing “M” indicates it was finished by another location (like me Mukden or Nanman).

 

Ohmura believed the Mantetsu people may have taught these other two locations to make blades the Mantetsu way, but he wasn’t sure. After what we’ve learned about Mantetsu sharing unfinished blades, I think it’s more likely this is what we’re seeing.

[Bruce Pennington]

Hey Bruce, I have a Spring 1944 Mantetsu with a small Nanman/Ren/ stamp. Below this stamp is a "rail" stamp but with out the surrounding M for Manchurian Railway. Have you got any information on this cross section of a rail stamp?

 

Neil, what serial number is that one? I'd like to keep the picture of the stamps with it in my files.

[IJASWORDS]

The stamp is SE2340, I think you have it.

[IJASWORDS]

Any idea on the markings on this sarute? It looks like an eagle with a rising sun flag behind it. 

[vajo]

Eagle with swords or flash. Paratrooper sword?

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/25059-airborne-sarute/?fromsearch=1