Arsenal Stamps.

[Kiipu]

Here is another one of those red stamps on the bottom of a hilt.

Help with mei and where do i start?

[Bruce Pennington]

Adding photo and @Nobody's translation

 

"The red kanji on the tsuka are 海軍省 (Kaigun-sho - the Naval Department)." 

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 12/13/2024 at 11:33 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

Adding photo and @Nobody's translation

 

"The red kanji on the tsuka are 海軍省 (Kaigun-sho - the Naval Department)." 

More like 海軍卷 (Navy style wrapping)

 

[Bruce Pennington]

We have this Spring '42 Koa Isshin, RA 1027, on file from a post a few months ago by @Big Dan 146, but it is for sale now, at this Case Antiques Auction.  Thanks to @Ontario_Archaeology for the tip!

 

Posting because it has Tokyo 1st and Nakano Shoten stamps on the kabutogane.  We see these, now and then, but not often:

[Kiipu]

While doing my usual grave digging, ran across a Katsumasa 勝正 with a number of 264.  Not sure if this one is already recorded or not.

Help with a stamping

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Katsumasa 勝正 with a number of 264.  Not sure if this one is already recorded or not.

Had that one, but glad you brought it up as I had mis-read the date as "1944".  Fixed now, thank you!

[Conway S]

Saw this on a colonial sword guard. The only maker I am familiar with that marked swords "Tokyo" is Suya. The characters below are difficult to make out without a better photo. 

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

2 hours ago, Conway S said:

Saw this on a colonial sword guard. The only maker I am familiar with that marked swords "Tokyo" is Suya. The characters below are difficult to make out without a better photo. 

 

This is mark of 越前屋多崎商店  Echizen’ya Tazaki Shōten .

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Haven't seen that one before, however, we have one in seal script that we think is of the same shop:

[george trotter]

Hey Bruce,

Just noticed that Sohei Swords have a Takashima Kunihide signed star stamped sword made Showa 19/12 listed on ebay...they don't show the back edge of the tang but it should have a number (maybe 95, 96?)...anyway, maybe you can email him and  and get another tang number with date for Kunihide of Kyoto.

He has it listed as 'Gendaito WWII Japanese Samurai Sword Shin Gunto...'

Just thought you would like to adsd to your files.

George.

[Bruce Pennington]

11 hours ago, george trotter said:

Takashima Kunihide signed star stamped sword made Showa 19/12

I put in a request, thanks Mal.  Sohei-swords is @mdiddy, Matt Jarrel.  

[KungFooey]

Just to keep the flag here flying, my new (to me) Minamoto Moritaka - who apparently only made gendaito - has the "Ho Ho"🎅🏼stamps below on the nakago mune. 
 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Dee!  Hadn't logged one in from Moritaka yet.  Like you said on the other thread, Kokura's 1st Factory inspector stamp.  I haven't tracked the double stamping thoroughly, but I do have 12 on file from 1940 - 1944.  Yours is the second earliest in my chart.  Their presence doesn't say anything about the blade being traditional or not as I've seen them on RJT star stamped blades.  

 

@mecox and @Kiipu probably know more about the practice, and might have more to add.

[mecox]

@Bruce Pennington @Kiipu @KungFooey   Moritaka very good smith.  Have examples of work and his students in Fukuoka/Kokura paper in NMB Downloads

 

Mal

[KungFooey]

8 hours ago, mecox said:

@Bruce Pennington @Kiipu @KungFooey   Moritaka very good smith.  Have examples of work and his students in Fukuoka/Kokura paper in NMB Downloads

 

Mal

Hi Mal!

I just read the download and it's amazing how much information is there!

I can see lots of combinations of stamps but not my 'ho-ho' so I'm still real confused exactly what that means?

 

Many thanks!

Dee

 

PS: I was exhausted when I read your document the first time - now, however, I can see two Moritaka blades with Ho Ho stamps on pages 125 and 127 described as "pre-star" and an explanation on page 32 that these two stamps were used for Kumamoto Tosho between 1941 and early 1942 (which makes sense considering my sword commemorates Japan's declaration of war on the US and UK in December 1941).

However, I'm still not sure what, if any, differences there are between Moritaka's 'patriotic slogan' blades, special orders and RJT basic info signatures.

Thanks again!!!

Dee

 

[mecox]

Dee, yes its not straightforward, and back more so as they started to move sections of Kokura arsenal from 1943.  But there were "control groups" for the arsenal is different prefectures.  They opened one in Kumamoto (page 29) in Jan 1942, and it could check/accept blades for the arsenal. I understand there are gendaito made of tamahagane which when the RJT scheme was in place (late 1942 and into 43) received star stamp. Before this no star but got "ho" and then was processed within the arsenal system and got 2nd "ho" (I think).  So is yours dated?  (1942 based on this).  Patriot sayings are custom orders or gifts to shrines/special people. 

 

PS. I put my paper in PDF format so you can use SEARCH keywords 

[KungFooey]

48 minutes ago, mecox said:

Dee, yes its not straightforward, and back more so as they started to move sections of Kokura arsenal from 1943.  But there were "control groups" for the arsenal is different prefectures.  They opened one in Kumamoto (page 29) in Jan 1942, and it could check/accept blades for the arsenal. I understand there are gendaito made of tamahagane which when the RJT scheme was in place (late 1942 and into 43) received star stamp. Before this no star but got "ho" and then was processed within the arsenal system and got 2nd "ho" (I think).  So is yours dated?  (1942 based on this).  Patriot sayings are custom orders or gifts to shrines/special people. 

 

PS. I put my paper in PDF format so you can use SEARCH keywords 

Thank you again Mal!

 

My sword is longer than usual for a Guntō at 69cm (it is in shirasaya but still has a typical gilded gunto habaki) and is signed tachimei Kōteki Bukotsu Minamoto Moritaka 皇敵無骨源盛高.

On the reverse is the inscription Made on the auspicious day of the declaration of war against America and Britain 対米英宣戦之吉辰作 which suggests a forging date of December 7 or 8, 1941.

 

Regards,

Dee

[Bruce Pennington]

On 1/20/2025 at 6:38 PM, KungFooey said:

I can see lots of combinations of stamps but not my 'ho-ho' so I'm still real confused exactly what that means?

I have 2 1942 Morinobu blades with the "Ho Ho" stamps. 

 

If I recall Mal's theory, the first stamp could have been from the arsenal that took in/accepted the blade, and the second one a final inspector.  I have "Na Ho" blades as early a 1940, though '42, as well as these 3 "Ho Ho" blades.  Using Mal's theory, these 3 were all turned into the Kokura Arsenal (first stamp) and final inspection performed by Kokura.  

 

Prior to 1942 (late '41), Kokura had overall supervision of sword production of both the Nagoya and Tokyo 1st arsenals.  This is why we see their stamps on both officer and NCO blades prior to this date.

[mdiddy]

On 1/19/2025 at 12:01 AM, george trotter said:

Just noticed that Sohei Swords have a Takashima Kunihide signed star stamped sword made Showa 19/12 listed on ebay...they don't show the back edge of the tang but it should have a number (maybe 95, 96?)...anyway, maybe you can email him and  and get another tang number with date for Kunihide of Kyoto.

 

@george trotter  @Bruce Pennington Apologies for the late reply on this one, I had the photos last week and just catching up on getting them shared. The number on this one is 135, hope it helps. 

[Bruce Pennington]

15 hours ago, mdiddy said:

The number on this one is 135, hope it helps.

Thanks Matt!  That number lines up nicely with the others we have:

1944, Aug	Kunihide (RJT) – Kyoto	90 on mune	Trotter Survey
1944, Aug	Kunihide (RJT) – Kyoto	98 on mune	Trotter Survey
1944, Aug	Kunihide (RJT) – Kyoto	99 on mune	Trotter Survey, no pics

1944, Dec

Kunihide (RJT) – Kyoto

135 on mune

Mdiddy, NMB, RS

 

[george trotter]

Great stuff Matt, and Bruce.

BTW Bruce the Kunihide with 98 on the tang edge is my sword...not a survey...the other two I did come across and record from ebay or somewhere.

Always interesting...gotta love the WWII RJT gendaito.

 

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington

Mune numbers on a RS type 44 late war.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/365208008429?

 

John C.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

13 hours ago, John C said:

Mune numbers on a RS type 44 late war

Thanks John!  Looks like he's re-listed this one.  I have it from a posted sale back in 2022.

[BANGBANGSAN]

2 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Thanks John!  Looks like he's re-listed this one.  I have it from a posted sale back in 2022.

Yep, this one has been sitting on eBay for over two years. The seller just wants too much for it.

[Conway S]

Does anyone know what the "1" signifies? Is it an inspector's mark? 

[Bruce Pennington]

Working from memory, but we have a few of these with the large one and a smaller number and some with a large 2. So it was proposed that may be there were a couple of inspectors using these numbers.

[Kiipu]

21 hours ago, John C said:

Mune numbers on a RS type 44 late war.

 

Nagamitsu?  Note the 2 instead of a 1.  See this GBF thread.

WTS Nagamitsu sword

 

Edit: Must be signed in as it is in the "Japanese Trader Board."  The seller had this to say and will also attach the nakago mune picture for those that do not have access.

 

Quote

I had the sword looked at while at SOS, by two sword specialist, and it is indeed an unsigned only numbered Nagamitsu because of the temper line is his signature style

X

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks John and Thomas.  That single digit numbering, which can be alone or followed by another number is a mystery.  They are on blades from all over the place, so it doesn't appear to be the practice of a particular arsenal.  They are mostly Army, but I have three kaigunto with such a number too.  Posting what I have.  Other than the dated blades, they are not listed in a particular order:

 

1942, Jun	Kanenori (RJT) – Gifu	Na Ho 1 on mune
1942, Dec	Tenshozan Tanrenjo	1 on mune	Michaelr, NMB, kai

1942, Mar	Norisada (RJT) – Fukuoka	Na Ho 1  on mune	Leen, NMB
1942, May	Norisada (pre-RJT) – Fukuoka	Na Ho 3 on mune	K. Elliott, NMB
1942, Apr	Masakazu (RJT) – Fukushima	1129; “1” on mune	George Trotter, RS, tsuba/seppa ニ1129

1943, Jun	Sadakatsu (RJT) – Osaka	1阪 on mune Star	Ed Hicks, NMB, RS
1943, Aug	Hiromasa (RJT) – Ehime	Yama Ho 2 on mune	Itomagoi, NMB RS

1945	Okimitsu	江江1	Bangbangsan, NMB, Kai
ND	Masayasu – Aichi	2   55 on mune	Conway S, NMB, Kai

ND	Nagamitsu – Osaka	1阪3490 mune	VajS,NMB, RS
ND	Nagamitsu – Osaka	1阪3991 mune	mauser99; NMB

ND	Mumei	2  95 on mune	Unleasedndest, Gunboards
ND	Mumei	1  100 on mune	DTM72, NMB, RS
ND	Mumei	1 104 on mune	Bangbangsan, NMB, RS
ND	Mumei	3 on mune	Bangbangsan, NMB, RS

ND

Kiyomichi

1  66; stainless

GunBB, Gunboards, Kai

 

I can't argue with the guy's opinion of the blade, numbered "2  95" looking like a Nagamitsu, but the observed Nagamitsu with numbers all have a Saka stamp and a "1".

 

 

[John C]

Bruce:

Not sure if you have this one. Matt recently sold a kai gunto with (?)63 marked on the tang. No other stamps.

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

19 minutes ago, John C said:

(?)63

Yeah, I saw that, but was hesitant to log it as I really couldn't make it out.  They seem to have numbered it right over 2 punch marks, or flaws.  The marks to the left might be a "Na", but if so, I've never seen that done with numbers before.  Osaka is the only arsenal I've seen that does it regularly.

 

I can't recall where Matt posted this.  Do you have a link?