Arsenal Stamps.

[Kiipu]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:40 AM, BANGBANGSAN said:

This Kai Gunto looks like has rocking star mark on the tang

 

Help!  Is that a Takayama blade with that blunt tip?  Also the longer than normal tang that is seen on these as well.

[Jcstroud]

9 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Help!  Is that a Takayama blade with that blunt tip?  Also the longer than normal tang that is seen on these as well.

 Kiipu Are you talking about the Naval Rinji Seishiki?

[Bruce Pennington]

No, it was a blade posted by Trystan, back on 4/26/2021.  This one:

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

11 hours ago, Kiipu said:

 

Help!  Is that a Takayama blade with that blunt tip?  Also the longer than normal tang that is seen on these as well.

That mark looks like the Tokokawa arsenal's Rocking Star mark on the Navy Type 30 bayonet.

 

[Jcstroud]

According to calculations the nakago length is RS spec or242 mm very rare combo hey its a rs  rs or rocking star rinji seishiki souvenir! Rare indeed considerering it was clipped.  Appears if it may have been longer originally.?

[Jcstroud]

Perhaps it is not as blunt as it seems the kissaki looks to be pushed into the material causing it to purse.wish we had better photos. But do what you can with what you got.

[Bruce Pennington]

It is the rocking star stamp. We figured that out sometime ago. The curious question about the blade, though, was, could it possibly be a takayama-to.

[Jcstroud]

54 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

It is the rocking star stamp. We figured that out sometime ago. The curious question about the blade, though, was, could it possibly be a takayama-to.

It certainly has the characteristics of one and toyokawa inspector approved.but appears to have been rerouted to Tenshozan...but that is just a guess. Based on the koshirai and also a trace of green paint.

[Bruce Pennington]

The September update of my "Stamps of the Japanese Sword" is available for free download HERE.

 

Update includes:

Navy Unknown Inspector stamps: The "Inaba" stamp may be an inspector stamp from the Inaba Tanrenjo in Noshu; and the "KA" stamp may be an inspector from Kamakura, location of Tenshozan.

Kakihan
-- Regrouped Sadakazu & son Sadakatsu & his son Sadamitsu
-- Added a kao by swordsmith "SA" from the 13-1400's
-- Grouped Yasuhiro who also signed as Moritaka, plus a Moritaka with a different kao
-- Grouped Masahide examples of kakihan, kokuin, and both

Added to Cut Test Kao a section showing the stamped "Cut Test by Hakudo" on Yoshichika blades

Stamped Numbers Map: added newly discovered kanji for Saitama prefecture

Koshirae Unknowns: Added small star on seppa

Type 19 Unknowns: Added a 7th shop stamp
 

Enjoy!

[Kiipu]

Quote

According to Ohmura, previously, the switch from Seki to Sho-in-the-cherry stamp was assumed to have occurred in late 1942, based on memoirs of the chief of the army's Sekiwake Arsenal and a book on Seki city's history. It was this Sekiwake Arsenal that now used the 関 stamp to represent 関分 (Sekiwake), forcing the sword industry in Seki City to change their quality test stamp to the Showa stamp.

 

However, discovery of a blade with a 1939 date and Showa stamp prompted him to reinvestigate. This led to the discovery of a 1940 Seki city publication, which said "Blades that passed thorough testing conducted by the Seki Blades Industrial Association are stamped with a mark of "昭" from Showa within a cherry blossom and have won reputations as blades of incomparable quality."

 

This is consistent with the confirmed use of the Showa stamp already as early as 1939. However, no documents have yet surfaced from the Seki Blades Association itself that officially gives the account of why and when this stamping change occurred.

 

2018-11-21 Nick Komiya

Help needed : fake emergency issue kai gunto?

[Bruce Pennington]

8 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

Seki Blades Industrial Association

I suppose that was Ohmura's terms for the Association.  I wonder if it was one-and-the-same as the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Association?  Wish Nick was around to ask that of him.  Perhaps you, Thomas, can compare the Japanese Ohmura used to see if they are the same?

 

The 1939 date he mentions aligns with survey data that actually shows observed stamps in 1935, 1937, 1938 and 1939.

12 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

Sekiwake Arsenal

Safe to assume this was a branch office of Nagoya Army Arsenal?  Or was it a totally unique operation?

[Kiipu]

6 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

... compare the Japanese Ohmura used to see if they are the same?

 

One and the same, just translated differently.

関刃物工業組合 Seki Cutlery Manufacturers’ Society.

 

6 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Safe to assume this was a branch office of Nagoya Army Arsenal?

 

Yes, a part of Nagoya Arsenal.  It is an abbreviation or shorthand for below.

関分 = 関分工場 = Seki Bun-Kōjō = Seki Branch Factory, [Atsuta Factory, Nagoya Army Arsenal].

 

The reason for bringing this to everyone's attention was to give credit where credit is due.  Nick translated the passage back in 2018 versus the later translation of 2022.

Arsenal Stamps.

[Bruce Pennington]

Excellent!  I was hoping that was the case.  Thanks for the updates in all the areas.

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington

Showa22 has a "inanami" kai gunto with a host of marks on it. Thought it may be of interest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364492652154?hash=item54dd747e7a:g:GS4AAOSw~O9lDN1q&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwIGBaJKqSnHpQVCmcr1xoEoHhUJQTVbDL6S%2BrDbTGnBVanqg9iw712tPcWrdBvS3KpazRkRXElqs%2Bz9C8yF3LGUvlhEcxK1JZARQzL6bTdtmNQ4M461bVnjcWlk0CMWnfAeglPd%2BKs8JYMGDIz6fvpFf6GKXrzf5QEkVIkkJAg8XZy59JtuNK6hns46Pmx2zHXo4h4sd3%2B5LXMQuJepZ%2F%2BNPWLoWbbAHcKeRPjgAhBZKf%2BoApRSdOtPPPIx0NH8qTw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9Cp16_aYg

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks John!  I have 10 of these on file and only 3 with stamped numbers.

[Kiipu]

Oops! Mistakes happen from time to time.  Obviously a Chinese fake as Japanese craftsmanship is sooo perfecttttttt.

Chinese/ Japanese saber id help

[Bruce Pennington]

13 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Obviously a Chinese fake as Japanese craftsmanship is sooo perfecttttttt.

Good example of the Toyokawa anchor in sakura found on fittings, along with the Suya stamp.  

It's early, and my brain isn't fully spun-up yet, but you're joking about it being fake, right?  Sorry for being slow on the take.

 

[Kiipu]

My comment was based upon the Suya logo being upside-down.  What do you think is wrong with it?

[Jcstroud]

3 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

16 hours ago, Kiipu said:

craftsmanship is sooo perfecttttttt.

Good example of the Toyokawa anchor in sakura found on fittings, along with the Suya stamp.  

I thought the anchor stamps didnot appear till 1940 were these western style phased out by that time?

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce Pennington

The tang of this Kai appears to be stamped with 天 118

 

[Conway S]

Here is another Toyokawa / Suya with an upside down stamp. It's currently on eBay:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276062302943

 

Conway

 

[Conway S]

@Jcstroud These swords were superseded by the kai gunto in October 1937. Toyokawa began operations in 1938, right? So this sword is from after the regulation change. 

 

Conway

[Bruce Pennington]

8 hours ago, Kiipu said:

What do you think is wrong with it?

Is there something wrong?  It seems to match other examples.

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington

Any idea on this partial stamp? I looked through the document but couldn't find a match.

It's on a Yoshishige showato.

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, John C said:

e Pennington

Any idea on this partial stamp?

* a twinkle in my eye *  Ha!  You had me there for a while!  But I see it.  It's the right side of the Seki stamp:

 

 

Can I have a link, or photos of both sides of the nakago, with an overall fittings photo, too, for the files & chart?

 

Forgive my POOR photo editing skills!
 

[John C]

10 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Can I have a link,

Sure. I asked because he notes in the description he couldn't identify the stamp and I couldn't either. Was hoping it was going to be of interest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134755212516

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

4 hours ago, John C said:

Was hoping it was going to be of interest.

Yes, thanks for the ink.  Only have 10 large Seki stamps in 1943 compared to 70 of them in 1942.  Komonjo lists this one as 1942, but it's a '43

 

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington

Bruce:

Any idea what the x above the Suya Shoten mark represents?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256186490944

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

12 hours ago, John C said:

x above the Suya Shoten mark

It's not something that I've seen associated with Suya markings.  After looking at the whole fuchi, as well as the gunto, I'd say this thing has been banged around a lot.  There are many small dings, dots, and marks on it, like that blob by the Kokura stamp.  I'd write it off to multiple knocks and dings.

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington You have this label recorded already. Wasn't sure if you wanted to record the sword (saya actually) it came from:

Kikumitsu dated 1945.

https://www.ebay.com...3:g:wZwAAOSw3e5lLyNH

 

John C.