Arsenal Stamps.

[Bruce Pennington]

MOモ 104, so a 1943 blade with the Nan-ban Army Arsenal stamp.  Thanks Stephen, a new one!

 

Any chance of getting the full set of nakago shots?

[Stephen]

I'll see ...not end of the world to sign into FB.

😆 😂 

 

[Stephen]

Date confused?

 

 

[Stephen]

44 Bruce

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

44 Bruce

You’re right, thanks. And thanks for the extra photos! I was trying to use Thomas,’ fancy chart arranged in a different way, I didn’t read it right.

[Bruce Pennington]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:38 AM, Stephen said:

44 Bruce

Stephen,

Did the owner state whether the fittings were RS or Type 98?  The nakago has 2 ana, like it was made for RS fittings, but I've got 2 others in this year-group made that way, but found in Type 98 fittings.

[Stephen]

Family matters can't think about it now.

[Bruce Pennington]

30 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Family matters can't think about it now.

Got more on my plate right now than I can handle too! I understand.Got more on my plate right now than I can handle too! I understand.

[Bruce Pennington]

The life of the large Seki stamp just extended into 1944!  Found this 1944 Kanemori with a large Seki stamp e-sword.jp/sale

 

That just shows that the use tapered off rather than dropped dead.

[Bruce Pennington]

I find this one interesting, in that it shows the square shape of the steel stamp the "Na" is on. 

Found HERE.

 

[vajo]

Can't see it Bruce only with register on that board.

Maybe you could upload the picture here?

[Bruce Pennington]

2 minutes ago, vajo said:

upload the picture

Done.  I tried a copy-and-paste.  Must not come out the same.

[Bruce Pennington]

Found a great example of the flow, over the war years, of the stamping on a single smith's blades - Kanemune.  He had both Showa

(Thanks @george trotter)

Seki

(thanks @Infinite_Wisdumb)

 

Then "Na" of Nagoya

(thanks @Philip)

 

and Gifu

(thanks @ww2colorado)

 

He was obviously making blades the full length of the war.  The Showa and Seki blades aren't dated (which is pretty standard for pre-1942 blades).  The Na blade is 1943, and the Gifu blade is 1945.  All made in the same area (possibly the same shop?) but the stamps changed as the army took control over blade production.

[Kiipu]

On 10/10/2015 at 6:47 AM, hxv said:

More nakago mune stamps.

on my Muto Hidehiro.

 

on my Yoshu Hiromasa.

 

Hoanh, are these "star" stamped blades by chance? Also, are either of these two dated?

[Bruce Pennington]

Another.  Hiromasa, Aug '43:

 

And smith and date unknown:

[Bruce Pennington]

Nov '41 Yukihiro, Na/Ho:

 

Jun '42 Sukenobu; Na/Ho:

 

Mar '42 Norisada, Na/Ho:

[Kiipu]

On 10/10/2015 at 6:47 AM, hxv said:

on my Muto Hidehiro.

 

Dated 1942 only and no "star" stamp.  Nakago mune markings are 名 & ホ.

Muto Hidehiro

Edited April 25, 2021 by Kiipu

[Kiipu]

Looks like these nakago mune inspection marks are older than I thought.  This one is dated October 1941 and the nakago mune is marked as 名ホ.

Kanenobu Help

[mecox]

Bruce & Thomas,   regards the Sukenobu (post#676) dated June 1942, he was working for Seki Token Co Ltd (Seki Token Kabushiki Kaisha 関刀剣株式株式会社) [see Toki Tosho article in Downloads, p. 35] and this blade  has NA & HO but no star.  He became RJT and blades in Dec 1943 and Jan 1944 have star & NA.

[Bruce Pennington]

That brings us up to 3 Na/Ho in 1941 and 3 Na/Ho in 1942:

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

Bruce

This Kai Gunto looks like has rocking star mark on the tang

[Kiipu]

1 hour ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Bruce

 

Is this one of the postwar made souvenir swords?

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

star mark on the tang

 

1 hour ago, Kiipu said:

Is this one of the postwar made souvenir swords?

That is really bizarre!  It is on one of those Toyokawa souvenir blades.

 

It looks like it was intended to be in a full circle that comes around, at the bottom, joining into an arrow that points up the center.  I've drawn, quite poorly to highlight this.

 

No idea what it's supposed to be.

[Kiipu]

21 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

It looks like it was intended to be in a full circle that comes around, at the bottom, joining into an arrow that points up the center.

 

The "rocking star" is a logo that shows up on Japanese bayonets and I think that is what BangBangSan is referring to.

A long Syracuse, NY Gun Show report & Rocking Star bayonet find

WTS Rocking Star Bayonet Nice Condition

 

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Kiipu said:

 

The "rocking star" is a logo that shows up on Japanese bayonets and I think that is what BangBangSan is referring to.

A long Syracuse, NY Gun Show report & Rocking Star bayonet find

WTS Rocking Star Bayonet Nice Condition

 

Yup, that's it!  Do we know who or what that is?  Do I need to ask on one of those GB threads?

[Kiipu]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Yup, that's it!  Do we know who or what that is?  Do I need to ask on one of those GB threads?

 

The logo is unidentified so far.

[BANGBANGSAN]

3 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Yup, that's it!  Do we know who or what that is?  Do I need to ask on one of those GB threads?

This rocking star on the Kai Gunto Tang is the first time I ever see it other than on the navy bayonet.

[Bruce Pennington]

34 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

This rocking star on the Kai Gunto Tang is the first time I ever see it other than on the navy bayonet.

Kind of maybe links the mark to the Toyokawa Arsenal in some fashion.  Does anyone know if they made, or oversaw, bayonet productions?

[mecox]

Bruce, in Naval Swords #2:  In addition to aircraft weapons, the Toyokawa Navy Arsenal  produced naval kaigunto, bayonets, the Nambu pistol and a variety of small calibre artillery weapons. (from an online summary report)

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, mecox said:

Bruce, in Naval Swords #2:  In addition to aircraft weapons, the Toyokawa Navy Arsenal  produced naval kaigunto, bayonets, the Nambu pistol and a variety of small calibre artillery weapons. (from an online summary report)

Thanks Mal,

The letter we have about the souvenir swords covers a meeting with Tenzoshan reps and the US Army, so we know that shop was involved with making them.  But the stamp on many of the blades is the Toyokawa stamp, so I bet they had other shops working the project along with Tenzoshan.  They had 8,000 swords to make, so they likely used this "Rocking Star" shop as well.

 

Maybe someone with a book of sword shops, like @IJASWORDS, might make a scan of it for the logo?