Shakudo habaki

[Grey Doffin]

Hi folks,

A long time back an old timer told me to be careful of any sword that had a shakudo habaki. He said they often have serious or fatal problems. Since then I've paid attention and found his warning to be true; more often than not the sword was retempered, gimei, or something else I wouldn't want to collect.

Of course, there are exceptions. I know of a Tokubetsu Juyo tachi with a shakudo habaki, and I've seen plenty of other fine swords with the same. But still, the majority have had problems.

Have any of you heard of this? Does anyone know why this would be? It doesn't make sense. It can't be dumb luck; the pattern is too consistent. But, if a shakudo habaki is a known red flag, why would anyone put one on a sword? I can't imagine anyone would want to advertise the fact that his sword is defected.

Interested to hear your answers.

Grey

[Brian]

Grey,

 

If this post was from an unknown newbie, I would be inclined to wite it off as a rumour that has no basis. But comming from yourself, and with your background, I think this definitely warrants further input and investigation.

I recall reading something similar..perhaps in a JSSUS article?

Can't say I have seen evidence myself though. I have a nice yoroi doshi with shakudo habaki that seems to have no problems. Another uchigatana has a low class shakudo habaki, and doesn't seem to be a very good blade, but doesn't appear to me to be otherwise flawed.

I would assume if this was some school or traditional indicator...then it would have become public knowledge by now. If anyone has contacts in Japan, perhaps they would have info on whether or not this is a common trait.

No doubt there are thousands of very high class blades with shakudo habaki. I would personally guess it is just an abnormal co-incidence without further proof....kind of like the thoughts that blades with double habaki are usually of a better quality than those with single ones. Don't think that one is always true either..but maybe the stats would show a marked slant towards the positive, that leads to the theory?

 

Brian

[Guido]

First time I hear something like that. I personally would inscribe FLAWED BLADE on the Shinogiji with a dremel instead of spending big bucks on a Shakudô Habaki.

 

Anyhow, Shakudô Habaki are not very common, so I can't come up with any statistics of my own. Buth then again, statistically speaking, every person on earth has one testicle and one ovary. I think that pretty much sums it up. :D

[Stephen]

the habaki might not be true shakudo, but copper with a black patina, i have had this done for one customer as he like the way it looked.

[Ford Hallam]

I'm sure everyone knows the old custom of Koto blades having Gold ( foiled ) habaki, Shinto having silver and Shin-shinto having copper. They probably abandoned that convention as gendaito would then need to be something like lead!

 

Never heard that Shakudo indicates a "bad" blade, perhaps just plain wicked! :D Shakudo costs more than silver as well, and why would anyone want to advertise ( at some cost too ) that fact that their sword is not a particularly good?

 

Ford

[Ford Hallam]

another thought,

 

it may be that many kazu-uchi mono ( ie, arsenal swords carried by low level foot soldiers, ashi-garu.) frequently have habaki made of impure copper ( yama-gane) and this patinates naturally to a very dark brown. Perhaps this is how dark or black habaki are sometimes associated with inferior blades.

 

Ford

[sencho]

This is an interesting post (partly because I have had to go and find out what a shakudo habaki is!!)

 

But the question of a copper habaki and an increased incidence of flaws or problems with the blade immediately got me thinking of an issue that I have to consider regularly; and something that John Stuart will probably have experience with.

 

When two dissimilar metals are in contact and if moisture becomes present, the electrical properties of the metals will cause the weaker metal to corrode. This is called Galvanic Corrosion and can be catastrophic in the marine indusrty. (example, if you drop a copper penny into the bilge of an aluminium boat, you (with the right circumstances) can have a hole in the bottom within a month or so!!)

 

Is it possible or probable that some swords (maybe the 'foot soldier's swords") got moisture inside the copper habaki and caused Galvanic corrosion??

 

Copper will cause corrosion with steel faster than other metals like silver. Maybe this phenomena was known (even if the physics wasn't) and more precious blades were fitted with more precious metals to prevent galvanic corrosion. In addition I am sure more precious blades would have been awarded more care and attention, as opposed to the blades of the common soldiery.

 

Just a thought..... Any physicists out there care to comment and dash my theory??? :D

 

Cheers

[sencho]

Actually scrub the part about precious metals, silver, etc.... these actually present a higher potential of being the "cathode" to the blade's steel "anode"...

 

before the metalurgy bunch jump on my case!! :lol:

[Bungo]

statistically speaking, every person on earth has one testicle and one ovary. I think that pretty much sums it up. :D

 

, I love your testicular (oops, I mean statistical )mind.................

 

milt the ronin

[John A Stuart]

Hi Nigel, Yes, indeed that is one of the significant issues we have to address in periodic maintenance. We have to apply sacrificial anodes at places on the hull that are subject to high electrical potential so that the anodes go into solution and not structural metal. This can be done with special electronic devices but zinc is the most common. The galvanic current is generated by electrolytes, eg salts in water and acids, acting on dissimilar metals. Salt water is an amazing electrolyte and a problem with dissimilar metals. A sword well maintained should not have a chance to build an aqueous solution of salts and this should not be a problem in the normal course. But I'll bet there is more corrosion evident on swords that were coastal for a couple of hundred years than ones that had stayed inland. John

[Martin]

Hi all,

 

we had a similar discussion - even with some testicular (emmm statistical) information some time ago... :D

http://www.militaria.co.za/nihontomessa ... ght=habaki

 

cheers,

Martin

[sencho]

Yes that is right John.... Salt water is very conductive... pure water has zero conductivity, however the smallest amount of salt in water will make it conductive. Rain water, river water, tap water are all good conductors as each has a certain level of salinity.

 

In this case the blade would serve as the Sacrificial Annode to the Habaki Cathode.

 

On a long and drawn out campaign in rainy season, when it seems nothing will dry out, I guess it is possible that moisture and the galvanic process could cause problems to a blade.... that and a sloppy samurai!!!

 

Seems they should have fitted some "zincs" in and changed them on a regular basis, like we do!! :D