New to collecting, Combat Sword

[ren]

Both google and microsoft translations seem to be failing me for anything comprehensible:

 

http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/2010/1010_1105syousai.htm

 

Per the subject, I am new to collecting swords of genuine Japanese manufacture. I can make out that this piece appears to be a Showato, but that the mei, unlike other examples, though hard to make out resembles this one attributed to Masatsune Amachi:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/masatsun.jpg

 

Overall, I would just like to know if this piece is genuine and a good candidate for perhaps a 'first' piece in a collection. I have untrained eyes and as yet could not detect a fake (although I've seen enough fake hamon on Chinese production swords) or things like re-tempering/blade straightening/ integrity issues on a blade.

Thank you very much.

[cabowen]

According to the description at the link you reference, it is a WWII era gunto, most likely made with western steel (and probably oil quenched). It is therefore not a traditional Japanese sword.

 

It is in good condition and quite unusually long. It would probably make a great blade for an iai practitioner, but for the money, you might do well to look for something traditionally made....

[ren]

Thank you for your help. The length was actually what caught me eye for this piece. There's so much variation in gunto as far as dimensions, condition, and methods used, but I'll keep my eyes open for something traditionally made.

[Brian]

Chris,

That is quite a nice hamon for an oil quenched Gunto. What are the chances it is forged from Western steel and water quenched?

Nice package for militaria collectors there.

 

Brian

[loiner1965]

Chris,

That is quite a nice hamon for an oil quenched Gunto. What are the chances it is forged from Western steel and water quenched?

Nice package for militaria collectors there.

 

Brian

i have always read on here that oil quenched blades always leave dark spots on the hamon in the peaks which this swords shows...

[george trotter]

I have some familiarity with this "AMACHI" family of swordsmiths, having studied their work.

There is a chance this is a step well above a gunto, probably a better quality showato....maybe lower gendaito?

The name is given as AMACHI Ginichiro in the datasheet here, and the mei is nakirishimei...when cut like this in sosho script the family name seems to come out Amachi, and appears as such in some Japanese WWII sources, but is (IMHO at the risk of severe criticism) actually AMAIKE and ALWAYS appears as such on all shoshinmei swords I have seen. His art name is Masatsune and he was 4th seat in 1941 Shinsakuto Exhib.

He had a younger brother Ginjiro (Kanenaga) who also made some gendaito and signed AMAIKE Kanenaga. Masatsune had a son? who signed Amaike Yoshimasa who sometimes used yasuki iron...I have seen all of these works with sho or Seki stamps but have also seen Masatsune and Kanenaga without stamps and they appear either high quality showato or lower quality gendaito.

I personally think this is an interesting WWII Seki family group, who worked in the gunto sytem but also seem to have made better quality swords also. I think this sword would be worth getting as a working WWII showato/gendaito (then hunt for the others), but the price is a bit high if it turns out to be showato IMHO.

Hope this helps,

George.

[lionel]

nice setup..what is the price in gbp ?

[cabowen]

The owner thinks it is made from western steel and assuming he has a better view than I do, I would assume he is correct. Usually western steels of the type used for gunto are much easier to quench in oil as water produces too fast a quench and causes cracking. That, and the fact that the hamon seems flat and lacking, tends to make be believe that the blade, while probably at least partially forged, is likely oil quenched.

 

For nearly $3000US, unless looking for a blade meant for iai, I think the OP could find a nice, traditionally made nihon-to...

 

As I have said before, if one is looking for quality, traditional WWII era blades, it is best to simply avoid anything from Seki.

[george trotter]

Other than the interesting family history I gave above, which makes these Seki family blades a bit more interesting than the usual gunto product, I'd have to agree with Chris about quality/price. While I have one of these blades (Kanenaga) and it has evidence of traditional forging and quenching, I do think they are all probably western steel. As such they are strictly WWII Seki gunto products (possibly upper showato or lower gendaito) and are interesting mainly as gunto rather than nihonto. Maybe they are suitable for iai (I don't know), but for the price I would be inclined to keep searching for a nihonto/gendaito.

Hope this helps,

Geo.

[ren]

Thanks to all who replied and for the advice on this piece. The blade appears to be very good in condition, no chips or major scrapes on the surface though seemingly lacking in hada, but better than many I have had a chance to look at within this price range in the US. Still, if all are correct in that there are others out there that are authentic in manufacture and pedigree, I will keep looking. I had considered having it, or one like it, as a part-time 'practical' piece, perhaps additionally having it mounted as katana. Pricewise, it seemed more reasonable than commissioning a new shinsakuto.