Iwo Jima bringback sword. Need help with specific idenficiat

[schnitzel]

Hi,

 

My name is Rob, and obviously I am brand new here. My arrival here is based on the recommendation of members of another forum. As a favor for a friend I a trying to find specifc information regarding a katana.

 

The story goes, that this was taken by a US Marine interrogator at the battle of Iwo Jima. The family that gave it to my friend are rock solid. To me the sword looks legitimate, but I do not know how to validate it. Further I am trying to identify the kanji on the hilt as well as the markings in red on the other side.

 

Any info on that and what type of sword would be great! Thanks all!

 

 

 

 

[pcfarrar]

Decent smith, it's signed Joshu ju Imai Kanetsugu saku, 1 million yen in Slough.

 

From Slough:

 

"His real name is Imai Kenzaburo. Kanetsugu began his training as a student of Kiribuchi Kanetomo, but later studied under Kasama Shigetsugu. He used the Go (professional name) of Ryuminsai. During WW2 he served as a Rikugun Jumei Tosho. Kanetsugu died on February 6th, 1971, at the age of 77."

 

Medium to High Grade Gendaito

1941 Exhibition - 3rd Seat

 

Congratulations its a good find!

[schnitzel]

Pcfarrar,

 

Could you elaborate on your reply a bit.

 

What does 1941 ehibition-3rd seat refer to? Also is the value 1 million yen or is that what it cost in 1941?

 

EDIT- is this a machine made sword or traditional?

 

Thank you so much for your help!!!

 

Kind regards,

Rob

[drdata]

No expert, but this means he is a somewhat celebrated smith. Second seat would be better than third. This is in regards to a military sword judging contest.

 

The million yen is a way of rating the relative value of a sword. I think its somewhat arbitrary and does not mean someone will pay that much. But relatively speaking, a smith known for high-grade gendaito would fetch more Yen in Slough's book than one that was known for low-grade works.

 

Smiths often made a mix of work, low and high. Each piece must be judged on its own. Generally a Rikugun Jumei Tosho smith would make traditional as well as non.

 

I did not see any stamps on the tang. Not clear when this was made; stamps were not used before 1941 or such. Stamps generally indicate a blade that is ion some way non-traditional (excepting the star stamp, which is often seen on Rikugun Jumei Tosho blades). Sometimes stamps are removed to make the blade appear more traditional. A blade could be non-tradition for using non-native steel (tamahagne), or for being machine stamped and/or oil quenched.

 

I think better blade pics are needed to determine nature of your blade.

 

Hths.

[schnitzel]

First of thank you everyone for taking the time to reply to my naive questions. This is a fascinating subject to me but, I at best ignorant of all the nuances.

 

I am curious if it is possible to find out who this sword was issued to during the war?

 

Below is the only other picture of the blade i have currently. If this is no help and actually raises more questions, I would gladly take more pictures.

 

[xxlotus8xx]

I find it interesting that this is another big name smith on a sword that came from the Iwo Jima battle. The Wakizashi that I inhertited came with a big name mei also.

[cabowen]

I find it interesting that this is another big name smith on a sword that came from the Iwo Jima battle. The Wakizashi that I inhertited came with a big name mei also.

 

 

Not sure I would go so far as to call this smith a "big name"....He is pretty middle of the road actually...

[Mark Green]

A friend of my father once told me that there were many 6' high piles of Japanese swords for the taking at the end of Okinawa, smaller piles on Iwo, where there were so few Japanese officers. (still likely in the many hundreds)

There is no telling how many of these were 'big name', or very old 'big name' swords.

At least, many of these have found there way to us.

Just think of how many 'big name' swords went down with sailors. (many thousand) Or, were blown to bits, or melted down by Mao after the war. I guess it was a good thing they made so many.

Mark G

[xxlotus8xx]

I find it interesting that this is another big name smith on a sword that came from the Iwo Jima battle. The Wakizashi that I inhertited came with a big name mei also.

 

 

Not sure I would go so far as to call this smith a "big name"....He is pretty middle of the road actually...

 

No need to be jealous!! J/K..

For me even a "middle of the road" mei is still a bigger name than a "end of the road" mei.

[schnitzel]

This is all very interesting! I am going to see my friend tonight and bring him all this information in writing. My friend and I briefly spoke on the phone and he wanted me to pass on his gratitude and appreciation. The information given freely in response to my inquiry has been enlightening and he wants those that contribute to know he values it.

 

Personally, I a curious about his sword and now I want one of my own! :D I think this may be how an addiction is born! I have lots of research to do now!

 

So if they value was arbitraially set at 1 million yen. What would be a more factual assessment of value? This information is not being sought to sell the sword!!! I just want to be able to let my friend know.

[cabowen]

The value of one million yen being tossed around comes from a Japanese swordsmith reference (Tokuno) wherein a value in yen for a perfect sword of ideal length, in fresh polish, etc., is given. Generally, for modern smiths, this is for post war production.

 

Speaking in gross generalizations, current market pricing might be something along the following lines:

 

Blades made during the war by top ranked smiths, average length blades in polish, signed and dated, ubu, and without flaws, can fetch between $6000 and $12,000. The upper figure is for special order, dedications, with great length, and in perfect condition. The lower figure for average work. Bear in mind that I have seen a few WWII era blades by certain smiths sell for more than $20K and as much as $35K! Shorter blades are worth, in general, less.

 

Middle of the road smiths, such as this one, in good polish and without flaws, seem to average $2500 to $5000 subject to the above conditions. Again, the upper figure is for special work.

 

Low ranked smiths, again, in decent polish and without flaws, might bring $2000-$4000 subject to the above conditions.. Again, the upper figure is for special work.

 

Machine made, mass produced, showa-to, in good condition, maybe $800-$1800. The upper figure would be for something with blade and koshirae in pristine condition.

 

Also be aware that certain smiths seem to fetch an unjustified premium in the West based more on familiarity than quality of workmanship. This works the other way as well with many high quality blades selling at a discount due to lack of a known name in the West.

 

Without knowing the length and condition of your blade (are there any flaws, deep rust, bends, is it dated? etc.), it is hard to say with any accuracy what it might be worth. A ballpark figure might be $2500 assuming it is without flaws, dated, and 26-27" long....

 

Hope that helps...

[outlier48]

. . .

 

Personally, I a curious about his sword and now I want one of my own! :D I think this may be how an addiction is born! I have lots of research to do now!

 

Hi Rob, yes LOTS of research! Hopefully your addiction has not grown to the point of an impulse buy from certain well known auction sites. Take your time and learn, then, when you are ready, there will be, as there are now, any number of swords that will be available for purchase from reputable dealers. Unfortunately, many "newbies" get the "bug" and follow the age old adage of "ready, fire, aim"!

 

Welcome to the world of nihonto!

 

Charlie Brashear

[outlier48]

Chris - thanks for the explanation. It was straightforward and easy to follow. I found the comment regarding over and under pricing based on name familiarity very enlightening.

 

Charlie Brashear

[cabowen]

Chris - thanks for the explanation. It was straightforward and easy to follow. I found the comment regarding over and under pricing based on name familiarity very enlightening.

 

Charlie Brashear

 

You are most welcome....

 

There is no doubt that certain WWII smiths fetch ridiculous prices in light of their mediocre workmanship while others, of really high quality, go for fractions. Of course there are also talented smiths whose work has a hefty premium because they are "famous" that isn't justified when one compares their work to other talented smiths.

 

It all comes down to recognizing quality and buying blades not names.....

[xxlotus8xx]

. . .

 

Personally, I a curious about his sword and now I want one of my own! :D I think this may be how an addiction is born! I have lots of research to do now!

 

Hi Rob, yes LOTS of research! Hopefully your addiction has not grown to the point of an impulse buy from certain well known auction sites. Take your time and learn, then, when you are ready, there will be, as there are now, any number of swords that will be available for purchase from reputable dealers. Unfortunately, many "newbies" get the "bug" and follow the age old adage of "ready, fire, aim"!

 

Welcome to the world of nihonto!

 

Charlie Brashear

 

I fully attest to this as my nihonto journey started EXACTLY the same way. Researching a wakizashi that I inherited from my grandfather who also landed Iwo. This has now blossomed to a insatiable thirst for more information on all aspects of nihonto. But Charlie is right. Take time read, research, ask questions and research the answers. And when you feel like you just fell into the rabbit hole there is no turning back.

 

RA

[schnitzel]

Well I think I am in rabbit country. I just spent the last 3 hours google searching a lot of terms i have seen used on this forum. HIstorically I have been a WW2 German mauser collector. However I think an opening has occured in my heart!!

[estcrh]

Well I think I am in rabbit country. I just spent the last 3 hours google searching a lot of terms i have seen used on this forum. HIstorically I have been a WW2 German mauser collector. However I think an opening has occured in my heart!!

Here is a good glossary of Japanese sword terms. http://members.shaw.ca/nihontonut/glossary.html

[schnitzel]

I have been doing some reading and wow there is a lot of stuff out there!!! To me it would almost seem like one has to focus or otherwise you can become lost very quickly.

 

My brain has come up with another question. Were katanas issued to individuals or handed out randomly? I have read up on soldiers in war being identified thru a piece of their gear being found. Just thought it would be a trip.