Purpose of 'surrender' tags?

[Bugyotsuji]

Meaning of 'surrender' tags.

 

If this subject has come up before, please ignore. I did try running a search but found nothing.

 

I can guess that 'surrender' means a) the armed forces' general surrender, and b) the surrender of each individual sword to a collection authority.

 

My question is about why those names and addresses and details were written on the swords that were about to be surrendered. Was it because 1. the owners were told that they would get them sent back in due course? Or was it 2. so that a record would be kept together with each sword? Or were these tags 3. for Japanese military internal use which just happened to be on the swords and had no real contemporary 'surrender' meaning to them at all?

 

If the owners were told by the J and/or the US authorities that they would eventually get these swords back, then I could understand why the tags were written like this. But if this is the case, then perhaps we should reconsider the way we treat them nowadays. A minimum effort should perhaps be made to return them to their family descendants. I would not like to think that they were given up only after false promises. Just hoping that I am wrong here.

[outlier48]

Hi Piers,

 

Returning these swords could be a very challenging yet laudable undertaking.

 

Others with more knowledge will correct any errors in the information I am presenting. The tags were to allow the owners to reclaim their swords after they were turned in as part of the disarmament of the people of Japan. It remains to be seen as to where this went off track. Needless to say, most of the swords did not get returned. It is now very difficult to do so for any number of reasons. Are any family members still alive? Would it be possible to find them and verify that a particular sword did belong to a member of the family? Would they be willing and able to take care of the sword properly?

 

I have "inherited" a wakizashi that I wanted to return to its "rightful" owner. When I first mentioned this on the board I found out that this would not be an easy task. I still haven't given up but hope fades. In a year and a half I may have been able to identify the owner "of record" in 1935. Assuming it was surrendered in 1945 there is a 10 year gap of possible ownership unaccounted for - and in my case no surrender tag.

 

There was a wonderful story (attached) of a fellow who successfully went through the process, found a living heir, and returned the sword. You may find it inspirational, enlightening and very moving.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Charlie Brashear

 

edit: for clarification

AMERICAN RETURNS FAMILY SWORD TO OWNER.doc

[Bugyotsuji]

Brilliant story. Many thanks.

 

So in your mind, owners were indeed generally expecting their sword to return one day.

 

In the above story the motive would be more a sense of obligation and responsibility, to bring back an object bought by the local community.

[Clive Sinclaire]

Gentlemen

The names and details on "surrender tags" were certainly there so that the swords might eventually be returned to the original owners, as has been said here.

However, I would caution those who laudably wish to return swords to the family of the previous owner as this might not be as welcome as you might think. Japan's militaristic past in the early Showa period in particular, was not something many "ordinary" citizens wished to be reminded of in a post-war Japan that was experiencing an amazing booming economy mainly by trading with those that had beaten them in the war. Swords were an unwelcome reminder of the "kuroi-tani" or "dark valley" of militarism that ended up causing them so much misery and suffering. This is one of the reasons why Showa-to remain illegal in Japan. The story is a nice one but.............

Regards

Clive Sinclaire

[Bugyotsuji]

Many thanks Clive. This goes some way to filling a gap in my knowledge as I've had zero exposure to Showa-to.

 

Some percentage of the surrendered swords will have been older and more valuable, I can imagine. These are the ones I was conscious of in my first post. Family heirlooms that may have been confiscated and handed over reluctantly with the ex- or implicit understanding that they would be returned. In fact it wasn't the swords so much as the possibility that we may have been guilty of underhand tactics, probably not such a big worry back then.

 

I know that 'spoils of war' have a long history, but still hoping we have some moral highground to stand on!

[IanB]

Two members of the Northern ToKen Society did return a tanto to the family of a marine. Sadly he had died a year or two before the return. His family were however grateful that their father's sword had come home. Having said that, I take your point Clive. I have only had discussions with one Japanese who not only told me that he had taken part in the conflict, in Manchuria. He recounted the terrible events suffered by both the local population and the ordinary Japanese soldiers who died in dozens from the lack of medcines, cold and dysentery. A harrowing time that we who have not experienced such things can hardly imagine.

Ian Bottomley

[Stephen]

Not 100% sure but I do believe that some tags were not so much surrender tags as just transportation tags, of the few I have owned it included the owners name address and railway name and route.

[Curgan]

Unfortunately the spoils of the defeated go to the victors. This happened, still happens and will be happening. I 'd daresay it as a necessity The sad thing isn't that Japan was deprived of its swords. The sad thing is that those who got them, didn't understand their value. Some even now do not realise what treasure are the nihonto and many valuable swords are lost forever.

[outlier48]

Unfortunately the spoils of the defeated go to the victors. This happened, still happens and will be happening. I 'd daresay it as a necessity The sad thing isn't that Japan was deprived of its swords. The sad thing is that those who got them, didn't understand their value. Some even now do not realise what treasure are the nihonto and many valuable swords are lost forever.

 

And even those who might be overjoyed to have an ancestral blade returned might not fully appreciate it. I just found out the sword in the story linked above has subsequently been given to a museum in the home town of the gentleman who received it. My understanding is that all too often swords given to museums to not receive the attention required to preserve them. I hope I am misinformed on that point.

 

Gentlemen

The names and details on "surrender tags" were certainly there so that the swords might eventually be returned to the original owners, as has been said here.

However, I would caution those who laudably wish to return swords to the family of the previous owner as this might not be as welcome as you might think. Japan's militaristic past in the early Showa period in particular, was not something many "ordinary" citizens wished to be reminded of in a post-war Japan that was experiencing an amazing booming economy mainly by trading with those that had beaten them in the war. Swords were an unwelcome reminder of the "kuroi-tani" or "dark valley" of militarism that ended up causing them so much misery and suffering. This is one of the reasons why Showa-to remain illegal in Japan. The story is a nice one but.............

 

I wholeheartedly agree! In those rare cases where it might be possible to find a family member of the last known owner of a sword, one must take a great deal of care in determining if returning it would cause more harm than good to those folks. I think this is why Mr. Sakaida took his time and used intermediaries in patiently determining that the sword would be well received were it to be eventually returned to the owner's son.

 

Charlie Brashear

[Paul Martin]

As a child I would sometimes watch my late father cleaning our family's Japanese sword. I was very envious and would think of how when I grew up, I would clean it and be charmed by its beauty.

 

After the defeat of the war, due to the occupational forces' decree banning Japanese swords everywhere, my father surrendered his sword. It was never to be seen again. I will never forget how my child heart was truly broken.

 

The late former Prime Minister, Hashimoto Ryutaro

 

If you need any more help.

 

http://www.chicago.us.emb-Japan.go.jp/A ... facts.html

[sanjuro]

For what this is worth, Not all swords were surrendered. some (a few) were quite blatantly stolen. I own a sword that was part of the so called spoils of war. This sword however was not surrendered but 'liberated' by persons suspected but not provably known from a shrine. The blade is in perfect order and is much older than many surrendered swords. It bears an inscription that dates from the days of the Satsuma Rebellion, although the blade is slightly older still. It also cannot be mounted as a practical sword since although there is a punch mark where the mekugi ana is located, there is no mekugi ana. The sword was never intended to be used although it has a full koshirae.

I know of the family to whom this sword belongs and I have been in touch with surviving members of that family. I have offered to return the sword to the shrine from which it was 'liberated' personally. My offer was very politely refused although the history and authenticity of the sword was confirmed. The reason?

As we all know, Japanese are not generally allowed to own swords, and in this case the family itself cannot accept the sword. More importantly, If I were to do as I offered and return it to the shrine from which it was 'liberated', the sword would need to be returned to a shrine that is no longer a shrine but a historical building associated with a current American military base. It would be rather like returning the sword to the thief who stole it!

I therefore hold this sword in trust. Perhaps one day........... who knows?

[Grey Doffin]

As we all know, Japanese are not generally allowed to own swords

This is news to me; I thought anyone could own a sword as long as it was registered with the government. Can someone explain, please?

Grey

[sanjuro]

Grey

 

An unclear statement by me I'm afraid..... I was alluding to the need to register swords much as we need to licence a firearm. The member of the family concerned was unwilling for reasons of his own, to go to those lengths. His statement was to the effect that it was difficult for Japanese to own swords and required some special dispensation by the authorities. This was some 12 years ago. I am not familiar with the requirements at the time, and took him at his word. My statement was perhaps a bit sweeping... sorry if I unintentionally mislead.

[Nautilus]

For what this is worth, Not all swords were surrendered.

 

This puts me in mind of a similar case of a blade clearly had-away-with by a member of the occupying forces, who eventually suffered a sea-change and wished to return the item.

 

Not a grand item, but a well-made gendaito and worthy for all that.

 

His solution was simply to address it to the local government in Mito-city with such information as he had. The customs, it seems passed it through to the authorities in the city who did attempt to discover the owners - though fruitlessly. This I know, as the blade ultimately passed into the possession (once papered) of my old master: returned as close to home as was possible under the circumstances - where it remains to this day, and active in Dojo. A spoil of war which was ultimately not spoiled by war.

[Henry Wilson]

If you are all wondering where to send your swords, I'll gladly accept them (if they are good enough) and will respect you for the rest of your life.

 

Don't want to sound cynical but IMHO as I can see the delighted owner selling their repatriated treasured family heirloom and having a good laugh at the do gooder at the same time.

[Curgan]

Don't want to sound cynical but IMHO as I can see the delighted owner selling their repatriated treasured family heirloom and having a good laugh at the do gooder at the same time.

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Nihonto appreciation is a hobby for few.

 

As for your offer mr Wilson I intent to top you extending it even to the swords that are not good enough! Moreover, I offer to pay the shipping cost myself!

[Stephen]

as the turn of this post,

As for your offer mr Wilson I intent to top you extending it even to the swords that are not good enough! Moreover, I offer to pay the shipping cost myself!

 

ill one up you and offer ten dollars per sword plus shipping!!

 

sure like the way post go astray.

 

Once more NOT ALL WERE SURRENDER TAGGED, some just mere shipping tags