My first sword: Noshu Ju Marayama Kaneshige Saku

[BenVK]

A good friend of mine suggested this would be a good sword to start with. I bought it from a collector on the WAF forum who lives in Singapore. I just got it yesterday although it's been in the UK for a week. Waiting for UK customs to clear it didn't do my blood pressure any good!

No duty to pay though in the end, don't know why but I'm not complaining!..

 

What's the verdict?

 

[BenVK]

More..

[BenVK]

Bit more..

[loiner1965]

nice first sword....is this the showa smith and any tang stamps

[BenVK]

Yes, lots of tang markings.

[BenVK]

Arsenal stamp?

[cabowen]

WWII era iaito. Non-traditionally made.....Looks to be in nice condition...

[BenVK]

Blade has some slight pitting but the Hamon is very nice (sorry! very new to this, don't know how else to describe it yet!)

[BenVK]

WWII era iaito. Non-traditionally made.....Looks to be in nice condition...

 

Does that mean machine made practice sword? if so, I'm guessing that's not a good result. :|

[estcrh]

WWII era iaito. Non-traditionally made.....Looks to be in nice condition...

 

Does that mean machine made practice sword? if so, I'm guessing that's not a good result. :|

Ben, having a tang stamp like that just means that something about your sword is not traditional, either the steel or the method used in making it ( oil quenched instead of water quenched ). There is nothing wrong with it unless you were told something different when you purchased it. Many ww2 era swords were handmade but are not considered to be true nihonto and are considered to be showato. ( "Showato" is used by collectors to also refer to non-traditionally made swords of the Showa Era. It also implies a lower grade of blade not usually of interest to Nihonto collectors.) from > http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/showato.htm?200527

[cabowen]

Not machine made but not traditionally made-western steel and oil quench most likely. It was made for iai practitioners.....You could do worse for a first sword-I know I did.....

[BenVK]

Hmm, I wasn't told that it was an Iaito sword. This is the first time I've heard the term. Strangely enough though, as soon as I inspected it, it wasn't as sharp as I expected but being my first sword, I have nothing to compare it with.

 

Look, sorry to be blunt because I know it's not simple as good or bad sword but at the moment I'd like to know if I bought a turkey or not.

The Iaito comment is making me very nervous.

 

I paid $1800.

[David Flynn]

It was not made as an Iato, it was originally a fully functional Gunto(army sword). It has a showa stamp on the tang, indicating it was made before 1942. Someone has converted it since the war(probably for Iaido or Kenjutsu practice).

[cabowen]

It was not made as an Iato, it was originally a fully functional Gunto(army sword). It has a showa stamp on the tang, indicating it was made before 1942. Someone has converted it since the war(probably for Iaido or Kenjutsu practice).

 

I have seen showa stamped blades in original iai koshirae. That is what this looks like. I would bet against it having been mounted originally as a gunto.

[SwordGuyJoe]

I'd like to know if I bought a turkey or not

 

The mounts seem to be in good repair, the blade seems good, and the price of $1,800 doesn't seem out of the realm of what I have seen these go for. You paid market value plus or minus a very small margin.

 

Just my opinion...

[BenVK]

Thanks Joe, I appreciate it.

[estcrh]

It was not made as an Iato, it was originally a fully functional Gunto(army sword). It has a showa stamp on the tang, indicating it was made before 1942. Someone has converted it since the war(probably for Iaido or Kenjutsu practice).

 

I have seen showa stamped blades in original iai koshirae. That is what this looks like. I would bet against it having been mounted originally as a gunto.

I have read that some Japanese civilians employed by the military during ww2 were issued stamped military swords.

[george trotter]

I would agree with about some of these Sho stamp swords being originally mounted in Iai koshirae...your metal fittings and mounts generally fit the pattern...I have seen a fair number of showa swords mounted this way (same designs/menuki/tsuba and wrap etc)...as Chris says...probably for iaido...and later having a leather cover put on for field service. Yours is probably still in its original Showa era mounts, just with the leather cover removed.

Regards,

Geo.

[BenVK]

I'm worried that the blade doesn't seem to be very sharp. It won't cut through paper. Is there a method to determine if it's definitely been blunted?

[Stephen]

he should mark it sold, i knew i had see it somewhere,

 

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... p?t=420223

 

if it wont cut paper, id guess it was blunted for iaido

[BenVK]

I think I should return this one.

[cabowen]

Many times swords made for iai are not fully sharpened.....

[BenVK]

Had a good look at the cutting edge today. There are quite a few nicks about half way up the blade and a few near the tip.

[BenVK]

Any recommendations of what to do now guys?

Keep it or send it back?

I've got this sick feeling in my stomach because I'm not sure what to do.

$1800 is a lot of money for me to risk.

[SwordGuyJoe]

As I said in my post, you didn't pay an exorbitant amount, but relatively fair market value. I wouldn't feel sick about it and whether an iai blade or used military blade the small nicks are really not bad. As far as asking us what to do about it, there has been more than one string that the seller has come back and unleashed a flurry of angry posts because a blade was discussed here, so I highly doubt anyone will tell you to return it.

 

I also read the link Steven posted and he doesn't sell this as a gendai or traditional blade, so I don't think it was misrepresented. In fact the more and more I look at this, I think this is a really nice showato blade, in strong mounts, by a decent rikugun jumei tosho smith. I think you did well, but what does that matter - how do you think you did?

[Stephen]

id save your money, get on David Hoffines list and by the time your slot is up youd have your money a sharp blade and better polish.

[sanjuro]

For what it may be worth, I dont know about the rest of the guys on this board, but my first sword was a lot worse than this one. You got what you paid for but perhaps not what you thought you were getting. OK...... that happens and the seller in this instance does not seem to have misrepresented the sword. Perception is sometimes different to fact, but you could have done a great deal worse. I tend to think that Stephens suggestion is the best course of action. A decent showato is not a bad place to start your collection.

[BenVK]

My main concern was simply that the blade had been blunted for practice. That wasn't something that the seller mentioned at all.

Maybe I jumped to the wrong conclusion but I thought that if it had been blunted, that would de-value it tremendously.

Having looked at it closely now, I really don't think it's been blunted at all. It's not razor sharp but it's still plenty sharp enough to cause serious injury. I was also concerned about the little nicks on the cutting edge because in the seller's own words there were "absolutely no nicks or cracks on blade".

I was asking whether I should return it because I wasn't sure if the condition of the cutting edge greatly effects the value and therefore mean that the price I paid was much too high? If it's not a problem, then I'm happy because the rest of the blade is in super condition.

Thanks for all the help! I struggle to interpret some of the answers but I'll keep trying. :?

[raaay]

Benvk

 

Sorry but IMHO $1800 for a showato seems very top heavy to me.

 

ok - It has the look of civillian type mount, but at the end of the day it's a showato no matter what way you look at it.

 

And if you decide to get it polished ! then you want to trade up I think you would

struggle to get out of the deal, unless there was some sort of part exchange deal.

 

just my 10 pence worth .

 

It may be just because i'm scottish

 

best regards

Ray

[Kevin]

Had a good look at the cutting edge today. There are quite a few nicks about half way up the blade and a few near the tip.

 

That is hardly misdescribed. All that something of the level of a microscope or a hell of a macro lens has revealed are wear marks, presumably from cutting, rather than nicks, which are visible to the naked eye.

 

Kevin