Stephen Posted May 30, 2010 Report Posted May 30, 2010 http://www.ina.fr/histoire-et-conflits/ ... es.fr.html this was posted on facebook. makes you wonder what they were and where they ended up. Can you tell if the last rows was NCOS?
Toryu2020 Posted May 30, 2010 Report Posted May 30, 2010 Some great footage there! Now we see how all those little old ladies got their swords... -t
Brian Posted May 30, 2010 Report Posted May 30, 2010 Wow..interesting video. Amazing how they just handed them out to civilians without knowing what they were. "Here's an NCO...a Juyo for you.....a Shingunto for you....a Yasukunito for you...." Thanks for sharing Stephen. Brian
k morita Posted May 31, 2010 Report Posted May 31, 2010 Thanks for sharing Stephen. :D I like to see such a documentary film. The armband was "Kenpei" military police. So, NCO...??
Stephen Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Posted May 31, 2010 Morita san here is another one with Navy swords. http://www.ina.fr/histoire-et-conflits/ ... nt.fr.html off to the right are more under vidéos similaires
Bugyotsuji Posted May 31, 2010 Report Posted May 31, 2010 Stephen, your last link not working? Such footage fills me with mixed feelings. Not easy to watch. Am I the only one?
Nobody Posted May 31, 2010 Report Posted May 31, 2010 Such footage fills me with mixed feelings. Not easy to watch. Am I the only one? No, me too.
Stephen Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Posted May 31, 2010 I felt it too, hard enought to hand over your sword to another hand but to lay it down on the ground... i felt for them.
Stephen Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Posted May 31, 2010 Bugs ...see if this works. http://www.ina.fr/histoire-et-conflits/ ... nt.fr.html
sanjuro Posted May 31, 2010 Report Posted May 31, 2010 Seeing this fills me with sadness. Knowing it happened is one thing ......... Seeing it is quite another.
Bugyotsuji Posted May 31, 2010 Report Posted May 31, 2010 Bugs ...see if this works. http://www.ina.fr/histoire-et-conflits/ ... nt.fr.html Thank you Stephen.
george trotter Posted May 31, 2010 Report Posted May 31, 2010 Hi Stephen, nice find. In the second link where the British general is handing over surrendered swords to the civilians, I thought that the first woman to receive a sword looked familiar...she is Lucette Mus, a liason officer between the resistance forces in French Indo-China and afterwards a POW of the Japanese. You will find a pic of her in F & G "Japanese Mil & Civil Swords & Dirks" page 251. The sword is in Type 98 mounts. regards, George.
Wickstrom Posted June 16, 2010 Report Posted June 16, 2010 Thanks for sharing Stephen. This is great footage but also indeed very sad. I could not imagine how those soldiers felt watching their family heirlooms being handed out to random civilians. Although most of the swords that we own once did belong to the men in this footage. It still brings a very heavy heart to watch.
David Flynn Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 I'm in two minds. War what is it good for? Absolutely nothing (to quote a song). First mind, the vanquished always suffer, even when things improve later. Second. My father and uncle fought against the Japanese with many stories being told. I remember that my older brother was chastied for practicing Japanese martial arts (Judo and Karate), in the 50s and my mother never reconciled herself with the Japanese ever. Saying all that, if it hadn't been for the war, I wouldn't be a collector. I admire the Japanese and many aspects of their culture. I have visited Japan and would love to return. This also reminds me of a Fawly Towers episode, titled, The Germans. The Theme, don't mention the War.
reinhard Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 I wonder who that strange creature in the back may be? It looks like a bald, giant lady in an old-fashioned swimming-suit. Any explanations? reinhard
watsonmil Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 I suppose I will be the dissadent voice here on this thread. In the area I come from were many members of the Winnipeg Grenidiers. These very brave men fought a courageous battle against overwhelming Japanese Forces. They witnessed the murder of patients in the hospital, .. they watched the systematic gang rape of the nuns and nursing staff, .... and then after an ardeous trip to Japan in an over crowded ship hold where many more perished they landed in Japan to become slave labour for the duration of the war. These men suffered malnutrition, were subjected to continual beatings, summary executions for minor infractions, .... were deprived of medical care, medicines, and even the Red Cross food parcels were stolen by their Japanese captors. They survived by eating rats, worms, snakes, and what they could barter for or steal. Upon learning that the war was ending many others who had endured the disentry, beri-beri, pneumonia, physical abuse were murdered out of revenge or spite. I personally knew 3 out of many from this immediate area who survived to return to Canada. One gentleman recently passed on, and the only souvenir SWORD that he returned with was a Japanese Riding Crop belonging to one of the Japanese Commandants. This Riding Crop or some might refer to it as a swagger stick contains a hidden blade. On their FIRST day in camp the Commandant struck one of the Canadians across the face for no reason, .... the young man instinctively grabbed the crop, and of course the blade was then freed and was immediately driven through the man's heart. He was baited so as to show an example to the rest to tolerate all that might be dished out. Before any of you start feeling too much sympathy for those officers surrendering their swords, .... give a little thought to what transpired. Perhaps you will not feel quite the sorrow or pity for these Sword Surrenders. By the way I now own that Riding Crop, ... but have hesitated to post it UNTIL now. One must remember Japan although now an ally was far from it when these photos were taken. I mean no disrespect to any NMB members, ... but history should not be whitewashed. Respectfully submitted .... Ron Watson
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Ron, samurai weren't better (with the due proportions needed by different ephocs). BTW, the civilized US Army in WWII campaign had blood sacks for "whites" and blood sack for "blacks". Guess which ones were often out of supply ? War has always been a dirty business, everywhere, and we're judging things in a time in which ethic have improved.
Stephen Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Posted June 17, 2010 Well this sure took a turn I had hope not to come. It was about the honor of the sword. I could go on about a hypo needle and a young Vietnamese lady (make that girl) that US Service men used all day, whats the point Ron in bringing up war atrocities? Its happened in every war from time began and will keep happing. id rather see this thread sent to cyber space than go down the road its taken. To my Japanese friends I had no intent to bring back painful history, it was only about the sword that we cherish and how it was treated. Gomenasai
David Flynn Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Stephen, many Australians, Americans , British, Canadians and Asians of different Nationalities, don't see any honour in the Japanese sword, only reminders, Unfortuately. Fortunately though, many of the above, have come to realise the beauty of the Japanese sword and appreciate them, for their artistic value. However, there is a difference between appreciation and honour.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Well, I must admit that I started off the other tack with these words: "Such footage fills me with mixed feelings. Not easy to watch. Am I the only one?" I sensed danger and was afraid that such material might create a gap between the Western group here and the Japanese group, and having been in such a situation before I wanted the Japanese to see that the situation today is not as clear-cut as it might have seemed at the end of WWII. I was happy when Nobody admitted to mixed feelings too. There are members on both sides who can see both sides, regardless of those who only see one side. As long as we can keep up the numbers of people able to see the wood beyond the trees, there is salvation. This is the general feeling in Japan today, although there are small numbers of extremists. There are still virulent wounds out there and this thread stirred up deep memories of things I heard and learned as a child. I am married to a Japanese now, and my children are half Japanese and half British. I prefer not to visit the past and possibly get into vortex arguments where emotions can run ever higher. Such arguments can never be won; the war's end enabled everyone to take a deep breath and step back. Back in the UK I take prominent part every year in WWII remembrance ceremonies and it is my duty as head of my family to honour the feelings of all of those who took part, both those who can forgive and those who cannot.
Jean Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Ok guys, things have been said and sensibility expressed, so please back to topic
Mike Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Well close to the topic, see what happened to the unlucky swords that didn't end up in the hands of the civilians and soldiers. So many treasures.... Mike
Brian Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Yes, but if only one in 100 was something special.....well, there were quite a few hundreds there Brian
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Even not considering the human aspect, I can't think at how many art masterpieces of any sort have been destroyed and still are (Bamiyan Buddha) by conflicts. No matter if right or wrong, needed or not, wars always left us with a lot less then "before". Biggest wish we can express for our children and grandsons is that all weapons will be, one day, regarded either as masterpieces or militaria collectibles, but definitively with no other use.
Mark Green Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Wouldn't that be wonderful Carlo I fear that WAR is a thing that is in the genetics of all humans. Add religion in there, that seems to be genetic as well, and the future for our grandkids looks dim. It doesn't seem likely that our wisdom will ever catch up with the new ways we find to kill one another, to hate people, because someone tells us 'god wills it', to want what others have. Maybe when the machines take it all away from us in the end? Will they love Nihonto as we do???
xxlotus8xx Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Since we are getting all deep here I might as well chime in. If you look at the history of man there has never been peace and I can assume there will never be peace. We are the outcast's of this planet. Everything else that lives on this planet is in some kind of harmonious existence with it's surrounding. Are we not the only beings that kill for ideology? For greed? to take it because we can? And when man has stamped out their existence, who will be left to appreciate Nihonto?
Jamie Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 That last picture doesn't look like a gunto. It's LONG. I bet many were lost. They are so much more than just a tool of war.
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