Stibbert Museum

[Jean]

If you go to Firenze/Florence, go and visit it it's a must in itself, Swords by hundreds from all over the world, Middle-Age armours by tens, plate ware, furniture. Be carefull it is located on the ouskirt of the town (Northern part of Firenze).

 

If you want to see the Japanese Collection, you have to go to the Museum website and choose the day and the visit hour. (Not all visits include the Japanese collection).

 

Main drawbacks of the Museum :

 

Pictures are forebidden

You are fighting a chronometer - no more than 10 minutes per room-

No Item labelled. Help yourself. Lovely Italian girl guide but speaking Italian only - Medium competency (well, balanced by her smile )

 

You will need at least 5 to ten visits to go through the Japanese collection. Items by hundreds, impressive collection of Tsuba, F/K, Kozuka, yari, naginata, bows arrows. I won't even speak of armours, helmets..

 

Very disappointed by the blades displaid, bad light, no item labelled, nakago oiled? some scratched, all blades were oiled. An uchigatana signed : Bizen kuni ju Osafune Kiyomitsu (from what I read), other impossible due the poor light (and my kanji knowledge ) Most blades 18/19th centuries.

 

Impossible to linger you are to follow the guide who gives the signal to pass to next collections...

[IanB]

Jean, Many of the items, especially the helmets and armours, are well illustrated and described on their website. Yes, it is sad that visitors are swept through by a guide since there is so much to see. They have also published extensive catalogues of much of the collection. What is saddest of all is that on Stibbert's death, the entire collection was bequeathed to the British Government but they declined the offer and it remained in Firenze. At least the Japanese collection has been kept in the right conditions of very low light and relatively stable humidity / temperatures since it was collected in the late 19th century. Virtually all of the armour is in the same superb condition in which it left Japan. In contrast the Oriental Museum in Venice throw open the shutters and windows every morning so that the light levels reach aggressive values. The result is that much of the armour there is now un-displayable.

In bottomley

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Yes, it is sad that visitors are swept through by a guide since there is so much to see.

 

It is possible to make an agreement with the curators to have a longer, even full-day visit, even just for the japanerse collection, but this is obviously more expensive than the regular visit. Limitation in number of visitors apply in this case as well.

 

Lots of swords hidden because of poor polish, especially the older ones.

 

But worth the money as they'll put out the items you ask (whenever possible) to discuss them.

 

the Oriental Museum in Venice throw open the shutters and windows every morning so that the light levels reach aggressive values. The result is that much of the armour there is now un-displayable.

 

I bet you won't know about pidgeons drops that occasionally occurred...

Some have just been restored or still under restoration (Spadavecchia is specialized in laquer so this is her main concern). However can't say ig they'll be displaied again.

Definitively, Venice is not a good environment for Japanese weaponry.

[Jean]

Ian,

 

You are right about the description given on their website. Furthermore, they are two books which were written on the Museum, last one by Robert Burawoy about the Japanese armours.

 

But when I am on vacation and I go to a Museum, I generally refuse to take with me my PC or pounds of documentations and I expect to find items labelled, I was very glad to explain to a guy the way a Tsuka was built, what was this copper disk with a hole in the middle, what was these metallic parts which seemed going by pair .....

 

Carlo,

 

When I am retired, we shall organized a dedicated Charter!!!!

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Carlo,

When I am retired, we shall organized a dedicated Charter!!!!

 

Of course. With some bottles of your fine wine presented to Civita I bet it'll be for free...

But we need to synchronize th event with John.

[Jean]

And perhaps Ford, if I have to bring the wine...

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

And perhaps Ford, if I have to bring the wine...

 

For Tsuba and fittings is much better the Chissone in Genoa. South Afria's wines welcomed as well. :lol:

[IanB]

Jean, Carlo, When I was last in Firenze they were installing lights in the cases of the Japanese gallery so most of the armours were out. I spent two wonderful mornings with Civita who was very knowledgeable and enthusiastic. Sadly I didn't get a real look at the swords, but I did notice some fine koshirae. One item that did impress me was a tachi-kake - to take FIVE tachi in a row. They even had five ito maki no tachi to occupy it. I think it fair to say Stibbert did better with his Oriental collecting than he did with the European material. By the time he started collecting the latter, much of the best material that survives had already been acquired by others. It is sad that the collection isn't more widely know to the general public - it rarely even gets a mention in guide books.

Ian

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

It is sad that the collection isn't more widely know to the general public - it rarely even gets a mention in guide books.

Ian

 

Indeed, that's why I make shameless advertising every time I can, until somebody will stop me.

[Jean]

Ian, I have not your experience in Musea, but I have seen quite a few, one of them being the Musée de l'Armée (Inside the Hotel des Invalides) and I must confess that whoever is interested in arms, Stibbert Museum is a must.

 

I agree with you and Carlo,

 

Not seeing it while in Firenze is a crime, I say.

 

As a private collection, it is probably one of the top of the world

[Ted Tenold]

You gentlemen are making a good push for a large international contingent to descend upon this museum in force. I'd love to represent part of the USA delegation!

[Bugyotsuji]

This is now on my 'must visit' list. Thanks for the detailed heads up Jean.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

The Stibbert is managed by the Florence's City Administration that have to take care of monuments and art pieces beyond any calculation. So funds for this insitution are extremely limited apart the income realized thru visits. A massive flow of tourists could help a lot, but definitively the problem is to force the administration to have a better consideration of such a resource. A very hard task considering what is left to oblivion almost everywhere in Italy. At least, the Stibbert is trying to increase the readiness and knowledge of its curators, to discern what is really worth of preservation and which level of deterioration it's approaching. Steps in this direction regarding Katchu will hopefully be taken soon thanks to Joo Anseew after a talk we had with Mr. Civita. Everybody in the community can give his small contribution.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

This is now on my 'must visit' list. Thanks for the detailed heads up Jean.

 

Piers, I still have a debt with you. Remember to give me a call whn you're in Italy.

[IanB]

Jean, The Musée de l'Armée also has its treasures. Two of the Japanese armours on display were a gift to King Henri IV by Tokugawa Ieyasu. They were brought to Europe by Hasekura Tsunenaga and left with the Spanish court who then sent them onward to France. They became part of the French Royal Collection and appear in the first full inventory, together with swords and staff weapons, taken in 1729. Two further armours, given to Stadholder Mauritz that had been in Huis den Bosch in the Hague, were taken back to France in the 1790's by Revolutionary Forces, are also in Musée de l'Armée. One of these occurs in a painting by Jacob van Campen in the Hague. Paris has in fact the greatest concentration of these Momoyama / early Edo gift armours in Europe. They were not specifically made for gifts as has been previously supposed, but were captured war booty. One in the Royal Armouries, on display in the Tower of London, was made for Takeda Katsuyori and another for a member of the Shimazu family about 1560 -80. At least two of the Paris armours were made for the Toyotomi family, possibly for Hideyoshi himself. Another may have been made for a member of the Mori family. The fourth is composite but has some interesting bits in it.

Ian

[Jean]

Thanks Ian for the update. It is a wonderful museum. You have all the firearms and prototypes one canlook after. You have pistols in case which belonged to Napoleon 1st made by Boutet and hundreds of arms and armours. Really worth paying a visit if one is in Paris