questions

[jeeplover]

ok i am still new to this so i am going to ask y is this sword real http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT what i to say that it was not one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT and he just removed the part to make it look real please no one take offence i am just trying to learn

[moss]

Yes Keith ,

 

The first one from the U.K looks genuine,missing a couple of bits and pieces but nice enough.

The second listing from R U Ready forget it ,repro junk.

Hope that helps.

 

Moss

[jeeplover]

i guess what i am asking is what do i really looke for the first one seemed suspect cuz that peace was missing the second one was just a example to say what if the same parts werer removed from them then sold one at a time how could i tell they were fake they would look the same

[moss]

Keith,

 

Are you asking that if you pulled apart the chinese junk and sold it piecemeal no one could pick it?

 

The cast parts on the faketana' s would have to be pretty good ones to get past the watchful eyes of some of the board members.

The sword in the U.K while missing a couple of seppa looks worth watching.

You would be able to pick up some seppa if you are patient and ask around.

Forget buying and breaking up the junk,you won't go far that way.

 

Moss

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

  jeeplover said:

what i am asking is what do i really looke for

 

Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945

Fuller & Gregory (Authors)

[Lee Bray]

  jeeplover said:

i guess what i am asking is what do i really looke for...

 

Keep studying real swords on authentic dealer sites and where ever you can find a blade that is genuine.

Don't try and learn from ebay.

 

With enough of the real thing, you will soon come to see the real thing from the fake just by a reasonably quick glance.

I only say 'reasonably' as some of the more modern day copies are getting better.

Most are very obvious after you've taught your eyes to see.

 

Even if a genuine blade is rusty, chipped, bent, whatever, the trained eye can see it.

A missing habaki or a missing whichever piece of koshirae makes no difference to the blade.

 

So 'looke' for real swords. Keep looking at them.

Then look at some more. Have I stressed that enough?

Only then go look at ebay and laugh heartily at the cheap and nasty imitations.

[jeeplover]

thank you guys no i am not looking to tear junk apart i am asking so i can protect myself and educate myself as what to look for i was giving this example so i could get pointers of what to watch for becaus to me the untraned eye those too look alike and i could very quickly be scamed that is y i come here to talk to people and learn from them as i said please no one take offence or think i am out to scam i am here to learn

[cisco-san]

I am not interested into this blade, it is just a exercise for a newbie like me:

 

Am I right with my translation that this sword is made by Masayuki (I guess the Seki Masayuki) and dated with Showa ju ku (1944) ni gatsu (2nd month)?

[Stephen]

Kalus

 

without standing on my head i think your correct

[cisco-san]

  Stephen said:

Kalus

 

without standing on my head i think your correct

[estcrh]

  jeeplover said:

thank you guys no i am not looking to tear junk apart i am asking so i can protect myself and educate myself as what to look for i was giving this example so i could get pointers of what to watch for becaus to me the untraned eye those too look alike and i could very quickly be scamed that is y i come here to talk to people and learn from them as i said please no one take offence or think i am out to scam i am here to learn

Keith, I understand what you are saying and yes the one you posted is a far cry from the completely fake ones, but if you notice, there are no clear close up pictures of the blade which is the sign of someone who is not used to selling swords, ask them if they can post better and more pictures of the blade or if they will send them to you, a honest seller should not have no problem doing that, it will also help to prove that they actually have the sword. Here is a link to a glossary of Japanese sword part terms, if you use the Japanese name for the part you are asking about you will earn forum points!! :D http://members.shaw.ca/nihontonut/glossary.html

[jeeplover]

i am not looking right now to buy i just want to educate my self better before i do and anything i see that does not look right i want to know about thanks to this sight i saved myself 387 and that is because i was told that there has never been sereal numbers printed on the habaki so when i seen one with no habaki i was curious as to y it was gone and i thought well if it had numbers on it y not remove it to make it look real and try and rip someone off so i came back here to ask if that was the case the sword i was looking at had the numbers on the habaki so i did not buy it thank you guys and when i am ready to buy i will be seeking even more advice

[cspage]

Whew! I don't want to be overly critical, and absolutely mean no disrespect to Keith, but does anyone else have difficulty following a train of thought without punctuation? I suspect the modern age of social messaging has trained those quick young minds to immediately grasp what the message is, but for my increasingly sluggish 62 year old mind, used to reading books, not twitters, it just muddles all together. :? The real concern, of course, is that something might be misconstrued due to run-on strings of words, especially when a complex subject like nihonto really requires a certain level of clarity in order to convey information and/or instruction. Just my observation, sorry for the interruption.

 

Colin

[moss]

I'm with you Colin,

 

I thought it was just me having trouble to understand.

Keith,it would be nice to have a few comma's ,full stops etc.

Even though a neanderthal, I enjoy reading a punctuated thread

Don'tworryifitisnot100%correctitwillaloteasiertoread

 

Cheers Moss

[jeeplover]

sorry. when i get a thought in my head i let it loose or i will loose it. i will try and use puncuation for you guys. lol. laugh out loud . thank you guys for your help.

[moss]

Cheers Keith,

 

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_002.htm

 

Here is a nice lot of information to read through on military swords of Japan

Or as suggested by Franco ,Fuller and Gregory,Military Swords of Japan will help also.

Take your time to read and study ,there is no shortage of Showato Gunto out there for $1000 or a little less in pretty good condition.

Some are obviously more desired than others,don't let the fact that a couple of seppa are missing or a catch is buggered etc put you off a particular sword,those are all little things that can be picked up around the traps.

Look long and hard at the blade as well as overall package.

 

Best of luck

 

Moss

[estcrh]

  jeeplover said:

i am not looking right now to buy i just want to educate my self better before i do and anything i see that does not look right i want to know about thanks to this sight i saved myself 387 and that is because i was told that there has never been sereal numbers printed on the habaki so when i seen one with no habaki i was curious as to y it was gone and i thought well if it had numbers on it y not remove it to make it look real and try and rip someone off so i came back here to ask if that was the case the sword i was looking at had the numbers on the habaki so i did not buy it thank you guys and when i am ready to buy i will be seeking even more advice

Keith, its not unusual for the habaki to be damaged or missing as they get stuck on the blade sometimes and people destroy them when they try to remove them, also they an scratch the blade at the same time. Blades are also damaged by sharpening, or by cleaning the entire blade with chemicals, sanding,steel wool, etc, also the value of the sword can be greatly lowered by cleaning the patina from the nakago. There are many things to look for on a blade so close up pictures are mandatory to see the true nature of the blade. You might want to write your post and then go back and add punctuation before posting so you do not lose your train of thought.

[Jamie]

Keith,

 

I am fairly new to this myself. If you want to learn, there are three ways I know of. One is to read read read. The first two books, will give you an excellent lead in to the third. Investing in books first, will save you a lot of money and you'll have them for reference later. Building building a library is paramount. One of the first pieces of advice I was given was to buy ten grand worth of books, THEN buy a sword. I thought this person was exaggerating, but it seems he wasn't.

Second look at High end sites where you could purchase these pieces. Those sellers KNOW swords and post good pictures and descriptions

(if you read the books first-you will be familiar with School's, smiths, and construction methods-Hamon types and so forth). You can try and match characteristics to the descriptions.

Third, Look at any you have a chance to( in person). Depending on where you are in the country- this may or may not be tough. Attend a show. It's Invaluable how much you will learn at just ONE show.

 

The following books will help.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Sword-Han ... 0804805091

 

http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Sword-Co ... 0870115626

 

http://www.amazon.com/Connoisseurs-Book ... 262&sr=1-1

 

I hope this helps

 

Jamie D

[SwordGuyJoe]

Keith,

I whole heartedly agree Jamie. Those three are great and I have read each about three times through and still look forward to reading them again to pick more out. It looks like you are leaning towards military/showato/gendaito. One additional reference is John Scott Slough's, "An Oshigata Book of Modern Japanese Swordsmiths 1868-1945."

 

You can find it at Satcho (http://www.satcho.com/References.htm) or eBay or any number of other places. An ABSOLUTE MUST HAVE.