Would a Togishi remove ubu-ha?

[kusunokimasahige]

Hiya,

 

I have plans to let my "masayuki" be properly polished one day and i would like to have the ubu-ha section sharpened too... (see previous thread pics)

 

Is it common for Togishi to remove the small blunted section just above the habaki when asked ??

 

KM

[Stephen]

Yes

[kusunokimasahige]

COOL!!!!!!

 

Thank you Stephen!!

[mike yeon]

Just curious as to why you'd want the ubu-ha completely removed if it is not necessary? The presence of ubu-ha means the blade has seen few polishes. Almost every blade begins with one then the ubu-ha gradually disapears as more niku is taken off the blade through polish.

 

mike

[Stephen]

he did not ask me that just if a togi would if asked...i agree a ubu hamachi is of more value in many cases.

[kusunokimasahige]

Almost every blade begins with one then the ubu-ha gradually disapears as more niku is taken off the blade through polish.

 

 

Ah, I didnt know that... Its just that in another posting someone said that Ubu-ha is a tell tale sign of gendaito, and not of an older blade....

 

that is why i asked....

 

but anyway i will definetely let the Togishi decide ultimately...

 

KM

[Deron Douglas]

Just curious as to why you'd want the ubu-ha completely removed if it is not necessary? The presence of ubu-ha means the blade has seen few polishes. Almost every blade begins with one then the ubu-ha gradually disapears as more niku is taken off the blade through polish.

 

mike

 

I was wondering that as well? I have one that is chipped, but ultimately I like to see an ubu-ha as large as possible, or near pristine if you know what I mean?

[kusunokimasahige]

well, i do not nessecarily wat the ubu-ha to be removed from my gimei masayuki, but i got the idea from one of the postings that "gunto" swords with ubu-ha were seen as less valuable..

 

but i understand what you mean...

 

KM

[mike yeon]

Ubu-ha is a good indicator of gendai/showa because of the logic that more recent blades would not have been polished as many times as older ones. I've seen ubu-ha on a number of shin-shinto blades as well. Depending on the damage and polisher it takes a few polishes for he ubu-ha to completely go away.

 

Also, Stephen is right about value as a healthier blade is certainly more desireable.

 

mike

[kusunokimasahige]

Ah Thanks so much for your info!! that sure helps with my first!

 

i have discovered a very nice trace of the hamon, colliflower shaped somewhere in the middle of the blade, which only shows up at a certain angle... though i wouldnt know how to photograph it,

 

and I have finally been in touch with a polisher, so it will be a while still before i can show all of you the restored blade... with ubu-ha

 

KM

[b.hennick]

A polisher can put ububa on a blade as well ar remove it form a blade. Tricky guys can do wonderful or nasty (depends on your point of view) things!

[kusunokimasahige]

so it is quite cumbersome

 

:?

 

KM

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

A polisher can put ububa on a blade as well ar remove it form a blade. Tricky guys can do wonderful or nasty (depends on your point of view) things!

 

LOL !

[Ford Hallam]

Hi fellas,

 

some years ago I unearthed a shin-shinto naginata by Koyama Munetsugu. It was covered in a fine web of very light rust, a bit like a spiders web ( a heavy coat of oxidised genolite had preserved it quite well ) but still had areas of the original polish visible.

 

After being polished by Mishina Kenji, and getting Juyo Tokubetsu!, it still has a very healthy ubu ha. In this case a very significant bonus, as it shows that the blade is practically as it was when new. Now if only I could find a nice ko-Bizen tachi! :D, with ubu ha, I don't think anyone would want to polish that off.

 

Ford

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Dear KM,

 

I own a beautiful Yasukunito by the master smith Yasutoku (which is one of the best early Showa gendaito you can get) in mint Japanese polish which still retains a very strong ubu ha. I'd have been very disappointed if, after only 69 years, it had lost this original feature.

 

Simon

[Henry Wilson]

I too have a nice Yasutoku Yauskunito (Showa 14) that was in the Saitama museum for a while. It also has a very nice ubu-ha with file marks that are the same as seen on the nakago. It is one of it's special features and collectors are usually interetsed in seeing a ubu ha. One person said that he hairs on his arm stood up when he saw (I am not sure why).

 

Removing a ubu ha would be a bit like altering the nakago patina or mei in my opinion.

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Hi Henry,

 

My Yasutoku (Showa 13) is in the NBTHK shinsa at present and I'd be extremely suprised if it doesn't pass Hozon.

 

Iida sensei, of the Yoyogi sword museum, examined the blade several weeks prior to the shinsa and remarked "This is very good for a Yasukunito......it is a very"gentle" blade with an excellent shape".

 

I think I know what he meant by "gentle" as it is a refined, almost delicate, looking piece.....certainly not a "hack and slash" implement.

 

And, like yours, the ubu ha is an essential part of the character and history of the sword which should be retained for as long as possible.

 

Simon

[Martin]

Hi all,

 

I also recently saw some (Shin-Shinto) swords that had ubu-ha.

Could anyone tell me what the purpose of this blunt area was/is ?

 

cheers,

Martin

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Hi Martin,

 

I've always imagined that it was simply to stop the habaki from splitting prematurely as a blade that is sharpened right up to the ha-machi usually cuts into the soft copper of the habaki eventually.

 

Also, I suppose it may have helped to minimise damage to the ha when two swords clashed together in close combat. The blades would probably slide downwards until they met with some resistance (ie; the other man's tsuba or body) and so the point of most vulnerability to chipping would be the first few inches above the habaki.

 

Only a theory, however, and one I'm glad I'll never have to put to the test.

 

Simon

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hi Martin,

 

I've always imagined that it was simply to stop the habaki from splitting prematurely as a blade that is sharpened right up to the ha-machi usually cuts into the soft copper of the habaki eventually.

 

Simon

 

Hello,

 

That splitting/cut of the habaki, along with habaki looseness, occurs most often as a result of seating the tsuka back onto the nakago of the sword incorrectly, and just outright abuse. A well made habaki acts similar to a spring clip, and will not be in contact with the cutting edge. So it is actually protecting the hamachi.

 

Franco

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Hi Franco,

 

Based on what you say, most of the antique swords I saw back in the UK must have been abused in some way.

 

Certainly, they were still in their original Japanese mounts (and so one can assume that the tsuka was fitted correctly by the original craftsmen) and yet most, if not all, habaki exhibited some slight splitting to the soldered seam along the ha.

 

Simon