Naginata Pole Weapon

[Type99]

These Naginata's are out of my area of expertise any help in the tang translation would be appreciated. The blade appears to have wonderful harmon.

[Type99]

Few more pictures.

Dow Cross

[Jean]

I dont understand the paper attach with its attribution to Kamakura.

 

The mei is Kunisada (perhaps Izumi no Kami) - never be Kamakura .....

 

Shinto smith ...

[Ted Tenold]

  Jean said:

I dont understand the paper attach with its attribution to Kamakura.

 

The mei is Kunisada (perhaps Izumi no Kami) - never be Kamakura .....

 

Shinto smith ...

 

Though inscribed as such, not Izumi no kami Kunisada either.

[Type99]

Thanks for the replies I suspected the tag that came with the pole weapon wasn't correct.

Best Dow

[estcrh]

  Type99 said:

Thanks for the replies I suspected the tag that came with the pole weapon wasn't correct.

Best Dow

Any history on this naginata? The pole does not appear to be old but the blade look to be in good shape.

[sanjuro]

Dow.

I'm no expert in the field, but I have three naginata of my own. This one of yours is very nice by the way. Pole (Ebu) is early Edo I think, the blade also since it still has some size to it but has the more pronounced saki zori curve of the early edo examples I have seen. Earlier examples tend to be longer and with slightly less curvature.

 

Nice blade........ Do you intend to have this polished?

[estcrh]

  sanjuro said:

Dow.

I'm no expert in the field, but I have three naginata of my own. This one of yours is very nice by the way. Pole (Ebu) is early Edo I think, the blade also since it still has some size to it but has the more pronounced saki zori curve of the early edo examples I have seen. Earlier examples tend to be longer and with slightly less curvature.

 

Nice blade........ Do you intend to have this polished?

Maybe its the light or the picture but the pole looks like it was painted instead of lacquered and the mon looks a little unrefined, not picking just wondering, but it is a very nice blade...does not look like it really needs to be polished at least compared to most naginata I see, which for some reason are usually in bad shape.

[Type99]

The pole weapon came from a old woman whose husband died recently and left a lot of stuff. I also picked up another pole weapon and three pike type weapons which are about eight or nine feet long.

Best Dow Cross

[Type99]

Here are pictures of the other items the pike type weapons are almost 10 feet long the other pole weapon does not have any tang markings, included is a Persian battle helmet.

Dow Cross

[John A Stuart]

I don't think I have seen a socketed jumonji yari before. That is if I see it correctly. John

[watsonmil]

Hi John,

Yes, I do believe that is a socketed jumonji-yari. Not very common. I found a few pictured in the 2007 re-print of Roald & Patricia's book Japanese Spears, ............ Figure 31. ..... Ron Watson

[John A Stuart]

The uekamofukuro jumonji yari. I see their illustrations match quite well to the above. John

[sensei215]

Lets see if my memory is still functional. A late 19th century indo persian helmet, an Argentine lance, a women's naginata, a functionally mounted yari and a socketed jumonji yari. I actually owned one several years ago which was a signed shinshinto.

And by the way a nice vaccum.

 

 

Sensei215

[estcrh]

  sensei215 said:

Lets see if my memory is still functional. A late 19th century indo persian helmet, an Argentine lance, a women's naginata, a functionally mounted yari and a socketed jumonji yari. I actually owned one several years ago which was a signed shinshinto.

And by the way a nice vaccum.

 

 

Sensei215

"a women's naginata" I thought that a womans naginata was pink with flowers painted on it!

[IanB]

Good Morning, Your straight yari looks wonderful - good length of shaft, good looking blade and the original scabbard. What more could you ask for? I suspect that like many, the jumonji yari is cut down. A lot of these were mounted on extra-long shafts to carry at the head of daimyo processions with heraldic scabbards and proved to be too long for the tourists to bring them home. Your helmet by the way is Persian and appears to be of nice quality. You can distinguish them from Indian ones by the fact that the nasal is held in position by a thumbscrew. Indian ones have a loop attached to the socket so that it can be hooked in the upper position.

Ian Bottomley

[Bugyotsuji]

A good-looking collection. Congratulations.

[Type99]

In closed is a picture of some more odds and ends. I like the knife with the chop sticks. The handle on the top appears to be old.

Dow

[estcrh]

  Type99 said:

In closed is a picture of some more odds and ends. I like the knife with the chop sticks. The handle on the top appears to be old.

Dow

Dow, nice items..I do not think anyone will complain about seeing some more pics..

[Jean]

  Quote

I like the knife with the chop sticks. The handle on the top appears to be old.

 

Not Japanese, Chinese

[estcrh]

  Jean said:

  Quote

I like the knife with the chop sticks. The handle on the top appears to be old.

 

Not Japanese, Chinese

Jean, do you mean Chinese as in a reproduction or just Chinese?..what are you seeing?

[Brian]

What Jean is saying is that the knife with the chopsticks en-suite is not Japanese, it is Chinese. I have seen these labelled Korean and also Tibettan too, so one of these countries, but not Japan.

 

Brian

[estcrh]

  Brian said:

What Jean is saying is that the knife with the chopsticks en-suite is not Japanese, it is Chinese. I have seen these labelled Korean and also Tibettan too, so one of these countries, but not Japan.

 

Brian

In Don Cunninghams book Samurai Weapons page 26 he has one of these knife chop stix holders pictured and labeled as part of a category he calls "mijikimono" which he translates as meaning "small, readily available implements" He states that samurai etc carried a variety of common everyday implements tucked into their obi. "Even utensils such as a small knife and other implements for dining". page 27 ???????? Did the Japanese own these but not make them or is Cunningham wrong...or did the Japanese actually make and use these...

[Jean]

Here is my Chinese set

[sanjuro]

Eric.

 

Have you read the NMB thread on Tosu? It may help explain what the Japanese carried as utility items. Yes the Japanese made and carried these things but regardless of them being described as mijikimono they were in fact just another variety of tosu. The Chinese also carried such things. The set in this thread are Chinese.........

[estcrh]

  Jean said:

here is my Chinese set

Nice one jean, I have a set also, this one was supposed to be Japanese, I have looked all over and can not find any more info on these utensil sets. If any one has any more info or ideas lets hear it.

[estcrh]

  sanjuro said:

Eric.

 

Have you read the NMB thread on Tosu? It may help explain what the Japanese carried as utility items. Yes the Japanese made and carried these things but regardless of them being described as mijikimono they were in fact just another variety of tosu. The Chinese also carried such things. The set in this thread are Chinese.........

Keith, thanks..I will check the thread..what in particular identifies the set in the tread as Chinese...I see them sometimes listed for sale as Chinese and sometimes as Japanese..I cant seem to see a difference..is it the material..I have never seen a utensil set labeled as Japanese that was made from bone or ivory..

[sanjuro]

Eric

 

Mostly provenance and the style of decoration from what I can deduce. They are so similar as to be almost interchangeable sometimes, particularly if there is little in the way of decoration. Some utensils like this are or rather were, fairly common throughout Asia. A label of Chinese or Japanese is often just the best guess of the dealer unless he obtained them from that specific source.

 

Not being much help here am I? Sorry.

[Type99]

Here is a mark on the chop stick knife.

[watsonmil]

In the case of Jean's set. .... there can be no doubt. Japanese Dragons have THREE TOES, .... Chinese and others have Four or sometimes Five. Honest ! Notice on Jean's set the Five toed Dragon, .... certainly not Japanese. In any case, ... I have never seen these sets as made by the Japanese, ... ALWAYS either Chinese, Korean or Tibet. NOTICE the handles, ... they are all basically of the same style, also quite often characteristically they will be bone or ivory handled, and mounts will be silver or/and pewter. ..... Ron Watson