help with kozuka

[lonely panet]

hello again, a new kozuka with a bow and arrow theme, it might be late edo. but i dont know if fittings this late can be traced back to a school or style. it has a mon that might be tokugawa. any ideas or suggestion's are welcome.

Regards Hamish

[sanjuro]

Hamish.

 

I'm no expert on tosogu, but this seems to be a 'made for export' style of kozuka produced in the late edo period. The rendering of the Goto style bow and arrow are very western in appearance, as is the scroll bearing the mon. It doesn't feel 'Japanese' to me.

 

I could be wrong here. God knows I've made a career of mistakes when it comes to Tosogu. :D

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Keith,

 

not to sound provocative but rather as a genuine attempt to get a better idea of what you are seeing could you perhaps elaborate on this comment?

 

  Quote

The rendering of the Goto style bow and arrow are very western in appearance, as is the scroll bearing the mon. It doesn't feel 'Japanese' to me.

 

This creeping notion of "Western appearance" in later tosogu is quite a puzzle to me as I often see things quite differently.

 

respectfully,

 

ford

[nagamaki - Franco]

  Ford Hallam said:

 

This creeping notion of "Western appearance" in later tosogu is quite a puzzle to me as I often see things quite differently.

 

respectfully,

 

ford

 

Ford,

 

What's the matter with you, haven't you seen the movie the "Red Sun"? That's clearly an Apache yumi and war banner from the movie on that Goto kozuka! Ah, here we go again!

[Ford Hallam]

Franco,

 

I don't my Apache from my Arapaho...so clearly I missed that one

 

It just seemed a little dull around here lately so I thought I'd prod the sleeping tigers with a stick...as is my wont

but perhaps I ought to start a new topic one this so as not to high-jack the thread.

[Jean]

  Quote

I don't my Apache from my Arapaho

 

I miss something or perhaps you forgot the verb, Ford. What did you mean by this?

[Brian]

- know -

[Ford Hallam]

sorry Jean...the missing verb was correctly supplied by Brian

 

One of the chaps on my forum just posted this tsuba. I thought the bow made an interesting match.

[Mark Green]

That bow is strung though.

 

I think on the Kosuka, the reason for the strange curve in the bow, is about filling space. Or the guy never saw a yumi unstrung up close?

[Jean]

I love bows and always been fascinated by their construction. Starting from the simple one to the inverted complex one (Ulysses'one)

 

Question : what kind of bow is it and how is made its representation on this kozuka?

 

Is it an out of proportion representation of an asymetrical one, or is it a inverted complex one, as the one in use in Antiquity by Parthians or korean, in this case without the string the curve should be inverted.

[Marc BROQUIN]

Hello all :D ,

 

About the curve of the bow , many bows show a reverse or negative curve when not tensioned with the string and it is the case of Japanese ones among others. This gives pre-tensioning before bending and more propulsive force. This explains certainly the present form of the bow.

 

The mon is not from Tokukawa which is formed by 3 aoi leaves in a circle.

This general mon has been in use by Ashikaga, by Toyotomi Hideyoshi and presently by the Prime minister of Japan. :|

 

This association of a bow and a standard is not described in the KOJI HOTEN from Weber, but could be perhaps found in Japanese texts books,

 

This type of kozuka seems actually as said previously, produced for western trade during 19th century. Many shoami workers were trained for that. :?

 

Friendly :D .

Marc

[Pete Klein]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yabusame

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABd%C5%8D

 

The above links have good pictures of the Japanese bow(s) which may help with the symmetry question.