Minamoto Kanemori Gendaito smith?

[miner1436]

Hello all, I recently picked up a nice gendai Gunto, and thanks to the members here the mei was translated to: 菊一文字源包守作 - Kiku Ichimonji Minamoto Kanemori saku. I was wondering if there was any info on this swordsmith, I have only ever seen one other blade by him. Here is what we know so far:

 

here is some info by Doctor Takeuchi from Swordforum International:

 

"However, the problem is that those lists use the tosho's real surname combined with their art first name, and this particular tosho signed his mei using his art surname (Minamoto [Œ¹]) and art first name (Kanemori[•ïŽç]). In fact, I am still unable to find "Kanemori[•ïŽç]" with any surname in the Japanese versions of "Army Ranking List" (Tosho Iretsu Hyo) selected by Kurihara, Hikosaburo and published by then Tosho Kyokai or in "Seki Tanrensho tosho" list compiled by Jinsoo Kim (on his internet site)... I was not able to find this particular "Kanemori" in Tosho zenshu (Shimizu, 1996) nor in the list of currently active gendai-tosho by Tsuchiko (1999), either.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, it is a common knowledge among Nihon-to circle that when you see two tosho who share the same surname (be it art surname or real) AND one character of their art first name (i.e., less common "Kane[•ï]" in this case), chances are that those two tosho are closely related either biologically/through marriage (in case of sharing the real surname) or apprenticeship (in case of sharing the same art surname). In some cases, the two tosho may actually be the same individual as some tosho changed their art (first) names occasionally while retaining one character yet replacing another in their "niji (two character) mei" for various reasons (e.g., Miyaguchi "Ikkansai" Yasuhiro/Toshihiro[–õL/ŽõL]) (Kishida, 2000; Shimizu, 1996; Tsuneishi, 1990).

 

According to Tosho Zenshu (Shimizu, 1996), there is a Showa era gendai tosho by the name Moriguchi Jiro (a student of late Miyamoto, Kanenori and Kasama, Shigetsugu) who used the art name Minamoto Kaneharu [Œ¹ •ïŽ¡] (with the same "Kane[•ï]" character with the one in his teacher's art name and the one in this particular "Kanemori"), who actively made many shingun-to during WW2. For the reasons I explained above, I still suspect that there may be some connection between this particular tosho "Minamoto Kanemori" and Moriguchi Jiro (= Minamoto Kaneharu) who worked during the same time period....

 

Regarding "Yasuki hagane," here is an interesting piece of information for those who are interested in Japanese officers' swords. According to existing record, the Ministry of Imperial Army of Japan also decided to look into the possible use of the famous "Yasuki hagane" (i.e., Yasuki Shiro-gami 3 go = Yasuki hagane type "white paper" model No.3) in their production of high-end zohei-to (gun-to that conformed to the military specs, but made not only by the jumei but also by private tosho), despite the fact that "Yasuki steel" was very expensive and not suitable to be use for production of gun-to. As a matter of fact, in 1939 Army Production Laboratory in Kokura ordered several civilian tosho in Iwakuni-cho, Ymaguchi, pref. to produce zohei-to in some sort of "san-mai" construction using this "Yasuki steel" as the ha and smelted Japanese steel as the cover (Troll, 1998). Existing records of Imperial Army lab tests indicate that those "Yasuki Hagane" swords performed as well as other conventional and mass-produce gun-to in "maru-kitae" construction in terms of cutting ability and edge holding, though they would eventually brake (instead of taking a set) during the impact tests on the side and on the mune. (For specific information on the testing procedure, see Troll, 1998).

 

In the official Army report, the identities of those civilian tosho who supplied the "Yasuki hagane" test blades were kept confidential to minimize any bias in favor of or against particular tosho (Troll, 1998). Therefore, I have no information to substantiate if this "Minamoto Kanemori" was one of them..."

 

Tang:

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2663/scan0010v.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6044/scan0011l.jpg

 

Blade:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7420/scan0013qz.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8052/scan0012o.jpg

 

Any information on the smith would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks, Rich R.

[george trotter]

Hi Rich,

you have a nice looking sword and although I can't offer any new info on him, I can comment on the link with Minamoto Kaneharu. I am inclined to think that they are not the same smith, but may be related. Kaneharu is given in Hawley as 1912, KAN 25. I had a blade of his and it did seem Taisho, early Showa in shape, not your typical WWII gunto dimensions. he was a student of Minamoto Kanenori (Chris Bowen's list) so was quite good. My sword was a presentation blade and the oshigata I sent to Rich Stein's site so you can see it there under "Kaneharu (Minamoto)".

I can tell you that from the strokes of Minamoto and Kane, they were not cut by the same man, also although you can't see in this oshigata, I can tell you that Kaneharu did not have kessho file marks, but was otherwise the same as yours. Nakago jiri is also different, Kaneharu being slightly more katayama kengyo.

I don't know if this helps, it is just some extra info.

Regards,

George.

[miner1436]

I think I have maybe found this "Minamoto Kanemori", he is either the 2nd or 3rd smith on this page:

 

http://nihontoclub.com/view/smiths/list ... to_one=245

 

It says both of these guys are in a Hawley book, does anybody have this book, and if so, can you post more info on them?

 

Thanks Rich r.

[David Flynn]

There are 2 different Kanji for Mori on this list. Which one is it?

[george trotter]

Hi Rich,

I had a look on the link you provided and either I did something wrong or you did?...I can see no smith Kanemori there using the same "Kanemori" kanji as you give in your opening post.

Regards,

George.

[miner1436]

Ok, I have found a Kanemori that contains kanji letters in the first post (Sorry im not that great with kanji) Do you think this could be him?

 

http://nihontoclub.com/smiths/KAN166

 

Only reason im unsure is that there is another blade signed the same way:

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread ... +ichimonji

 

The above smith made showato, but mine is a traditional blade and has no painted stocking numbers on the tang. And different file marks it looks like too, looks like Takanoha?

 

Could they be different smiths or the same guy?

 

rich r.

[k morita]

Rich,

 

Was the blade in the military mount(type98 /type 44) when you bought it?

Blade length?

[miner1436]

Yes the blade was in type 98 gunto mounts. Total length from tip of kissaki tip to munemachi is 26.5 in.

[george trotter]

Hi Rich,

The kanji given in the link (nihontoclub), is the same as the mei on your sword...however, the dates on "nihontoclub" are too early for your smith I think. I see Morita san is looking into this with you so he might have a Japanese source that mentions him...I can find nothing and he is not in Hawley as a gendai smith. Looks like a nice blade by the way. ( I can't find the reference in the second link (sword forum international)...too many posts to open.

Regards,

George.

[miner1436]

Thanks guys, it probably dosent matter, but just thought I would add that I was the 1st person in 60+ years to ever see and handle the nakago.

[k morita]

Hi Rich,

Thanks for reply.

 

Kanemori sword(包守) on sword forum is a typyical Seki sword(file work).

 

About your sword:

Kanehiro兼厳 in Seki swordsmith had chenged his smith-name to Kanemori(包守) in around '40.

File work is not same,but i believe Kanehiro(兼厳) and Kanemori(包守) are same smith.

[miner1436]

Thank you very much, great information.

 

rich

[miner1436]

Ok, after a while of handling the nakago some of the heavy red rust started to recede off one of the kanji, that was previously un-readable to me. Just wanting to reaffirm, does this still translate to "Kiku Ichimonji Minamoto Kanemori saku"?

http://img72.imageshack.us/i/scan0024u.jpg/

 

Thanks, Rich R.

[k morita]

Oh yes, "Kiku Ichimonji Minamoto Kanemori saku".

Last kanji is "saku" (meaning is made).