Victorian Collectors Notice

[Thekirsh]

G,day All,

 

Just a heads up to all the Victorian(Australia) Collectors that the state government appears to be having a closer look at our excemption via knife club/s to the states knife laws.

Here is the latest article on the subject

 

 

Sharp eye on lethal weapon collector clubs MARK RUSSELL March 7, 2010

THE Brumby government is cracking down on weapons ''collector'' clubs that may be abusing their legal right to own banned samurai swords and daggers.

 

Police Minister Bob Cameron said he was concerned by a Sunday Age report that revealed Melbourne store Global Gear was encouraging customers to join clubs such as Australian Knife Collectors and the Victorian Historical Edged Weapons Guild as a way to beat the weapons ban.

 

The two clubs are exempt under the Control of Weapons Act from the ban on swords and daggers as their members are considered to be collectors.

 

Swords were declared prohibited weapons in Victoria in 2004, making it illegal to use, possess or carry them unless you were a member of a collectors club.

 

The exemption allows club members to bring swords into Victoria; sell or purchase swords; display or advertise swords for sale; and possess, use or carry swords for the purpose of studying and collecting swords with a historical or cultural significance.

 

Mr Cameron said that after The Sunday Age report he had asked Department of Justice secretary Penny Armytage to write to the Australian Knife Collectors club demanding the club show cause as to why it should not be removed from the exemption list.

 

He said Ms Armytage had also written to other clubs on the exemption list to remind them of their legal responsibilities. ''We want them to keep to the spirit of the law by making sure they have only genuine members,'' Mr Cameron said.

 

The Australian Knife Collectors uses its website to promote the club's exemption in Victoria for the collecting of swords and double-edged knives (daggers).

 

When contacted by The Sunday Age, the club's Perth-based principal, Keith Spencer, said he answered to the club's 5000 collectors nationwide, not to the media.

 

''I'm not going to help you with your inquiries with us. I actually don't give a damn because you're inconsequential,'' Mr Spencer said. ''We're in damage control to try and look after the interests of the overwhelming majority of law-abiding people who use knives every day of their lives or choose to collect them.''

 

Membership is open to anyone 18 and over except for ''prohibited persons'' who have been jailed for a serious offence, assault or drug offence; are the subject of an intervention order or apprehended violence order; have been placed on a community-based order or found guilty by a court for an indictable offence.

 

Victoria Police spokesman Sergeant Adrian Keltie said a review of procedures was under way by Victoria Police.

 

''We are currently in discussions with government about how best to manage these clubs,'' she said.

 

Simon

[sensei215]

Just out of curiosity what do they intend to ban next " sticks and stones " . Can you tell me how this law came into being appoved and what it physically outlaws?

 

Tim S

[watsonmil]

It's similar to the flu, ... Lets call it the Irish Flu. Some Politician brought it back after a visit and a few pints of Guinnes to the UK. Then some Australian Politician trying to trace his family roots in the 18th century police records of London carried it back to the Northern Territories of Australia. There have been minor outbreaks in certain US states as well. So far we've kept the this flu out of Canada, ... mostly because the US Border Protection Services won't let Canada import it as it does not necessarily fall under the commodities listed in the North America Free Trade Agreement ( NAFTA ). You can be sure our Government is looking at retaliating. If the rest of the world has the flu my God how dare they deprive Canada. Politicians are the same the world over ..... POWER HUNGRY NARROW MINDED and STUPID . By the way it says little for those who actually vote them into office ! ... Ron Watson

[hybridfiat]

Reminds me of the debate in the UK over making blunt pointed knives mandatory.

What the tossers dont say is that all the crim/gang member has to do is file a point on the damm thing.

Typical lily livered, milk sop, weak kneed, gutless politician reaction to a problem that has an obvious but politically incorrect answer.

Cane em and then gaol the sods who commit the crimes and you will quickly run out of people who have a prediliction for mindless violence. Small country towns are a good test bed, the police in Katanning where I grew up noticed that after a spate of arrests and convictions all went quiet till the sods got out and then it all started again.

Tolerate violence and pamper them and they will multiply.

I get sick of explaining to the ignorant PC why I always carry a pocket knife (Opinel). IT'S TO PEEL APPLES! cut bandages and seat belts, winkle the last out of the olive jar and prepare food in a house where a sharp knife is as hard to find as a virgin in NZ.

OK I feel better now

[Thekirsh]

Some great replies guys.

Tim, I am sure the states sword law was evoked due to some teenage kid swinging a flea market machete at police but dont remember exactly.

Here's a link to the Austalasian Knife collectors site, explaining a little more.

 

http://www.knivesaustralia.com.au/sword ... toria.html

 

Simon

[moss]

Simon and all ,

It's worse than the flu...the media seem to have been spruiking every incident envolving and edged utensil of late.

I think they are looking for an outcome like little Johnnies gun controls,trouble is the media will probably keep beating this one for a while yet.

If the government bans swords completely it will be an environmental disaster ....around Gympie!.....all those buried semi's,pumps and swords.

Good grief it will become the rust belt of Australia :lol: :lol: :lol:

Simon, if Queensland holds out on any change just leave all your swords with me

 

Cheers Moss

[doug e lewis]

it is a mental desease that seems to affect politicos around election time.

 

the shout of Law & Order, goes above reason. look what manditory sentancing did for CA prisons; doubled the population with mostly shop lifters and pot smokers!! WHERE THEY LEARN TO MAKE KNIVES FROM SHARPENED TOOTHBRUSHES!!

 

i first read your post as "Bumbly" gov. slip of the mind?

 

just to be safe i am joining some sword clubs in the US, so i can claim long time membership when that Victoria maddness infects the USA like swine flu.

 

not directly affected by Australian insanity [and i thought Aussies were such a nice bunch], but mad about it anyway.

 

doug e

[David Flynn]

Unfortuanately, there is a trend in Australia now for knife related crimes. Stabbings and Armed Robbery. Various state Governments are introducing Draconian laws, as an attempt to aleviate this situation. Unfortunately, there have been some nuts, who have brandished swords and even cut people. The big difference I see, is that knives are very easy to conceal, Where as a sword is a little more obvious. Again, it comes down to the majority of law abiding people, suffering for the crimes of the few.

[watsonmil]

Dear David,

If banning the offensive weapon is the " Government Answer " in Australia, ... among other countries ( Ireland, UK ) then I suppose Wheelchairs will be banned as well particularily if the Wheelchairs are imported carrying Canadians ! It might be more correct to ban the criminal activity and properly deal with the criminal, .... but this would not be Politically Correct given who purpotated the crime in this case.

Regards, .... Ron Watson

[doug e lewis]

so, we all walk because some nut tried to kill someone with their car. no more glass -- broken too sharp!

 

and karate-ka like myself, Shotokan since 1972, and those who know how to use a quarter staff - english - bo = Japanese/Okinowan, ie broom handle/pool cue ---- we all stay at home and watch Oprah.

 

vote these idiots out of office --get new idiots who don't pander to the public's hyesteria over every sensational crime story.

 

at least here in the High Desert i can see them when they come to confiscate my toys & art for miles. grab, water, sword, wife, dog and RUN.

 

not even in australia and angry,

 

doug e

[moss]

Hello all,

another wacko hits the news last night,this time in Queensland......Holding a Knife to his wife/partners belly.

Giddyup, the media is on fire,all caught on film.

We will all be issued airline cutlery soon at this rate.

Its a shame this beat up could effect the law abiding among us but then again it will be like the gun laws...only the most upstanading, law abiding citizens will be able to legally obtain and hold any restricted edged weapons .

Maybe someone could use a politician as a weapon then we could ban them and have a buy-back.....sorry I forgot, the item to be bought back needs to have a value or be desired.

Pollies have neither of these attibutes going for them

 

Cheers Moss

[doug e lewis]

hey Moss,

 

i could only make a crude firearm -- and the black powder is touchy.

 

but most any of us could forge a servicable tanto, or even wak [katana ??/ ], so such prohibition laws would end up having the same effect the USofA Prohibition of alcohol had. qua;ity falls off, $$ opportunity for criminals, and honest citizens made into criminals.

 

but the news got great ratings, i bet!

 

got to avoid these threads! i get too worked up.

 

i'll still go to Australia, if i get the chance. country and people [most] are just too nice.

 

doug e

[moss]

Gidday Doug,

On a whole Australia is a great place to visit and live, don't let the potential changes scare you off.

Just a shame that like elsewhere in the world a few bad apples spoil the barrel.

At this stage only Victoria has the strong sword laws and the rest of the country is made up of states and territories with NON unified laws so there is still hope that the state governments push back........Hmmmm .

We all watch and wait.

 

Cheers Moss

[David Flynn]

A couple of years ago, the NSW Govt. Asked for submissions with regards to following victoria. I believe the amount of submissions recieved against prohibition of certain edged weapons was overwhelming. Nothing was ever mentioned again. Let's hope this common sense continues.

[moss]

Hi all ,

I guess one of the reasons we should be happy to have the State government layer in our politics is not all laws are uniform.

David it's interesting that NSW tried a similar proposal to VIC but ran out of steam when opposed.

They must have been having a siesta south of the border when there laws came to pass :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lets hope if the time comes to fight any bills put forward ,collectors,exponants and the like of edged weapons and art pieces can present a cohesive body to push back.

The Sporting Shooters have definately had some success through numbers.

 

Cheers all

 

Moss

[John A Stuart]

The biggest worry for me would be insurance. If these type of laws were enacted here I would continue as I have been. Just that if I was robbed my insurance would be void and investigation probably nil. John

[Clive Sinclaire]

Dear Australian Gentlemen

I received a letter today from Penny Armytage, the Secretary of the Department of Justice in Melbourne. As I am the Chairman of a Club that has "Excemption for Prohibited Weapons Pursuant to the Control of Weapons Act 1990 (Swords)". It basically reminded me of my responsibilities to ensure that my members are compliant with the "conditions underpinning the excemption". Also enclosed , was a notice of the conditions of "General Excemption". I received this as I was part of the consultation process in 2003/4 when all this happened. I think this is simply a reminder for you guys to belong to recognised and excempted clubs and to let you know who is in charge, rather than any particular threat.

Clive Sinclaire

[moss]

Hello all,

I just recieved this from a mate of mine and thought it would be relevant to this thread.

 

http://www.knivesaustralia.com.au/sword ... toria.html

 

Cheers Moss

[watsonmil]

Ownership of Swords in Victoria and the Australasian Knife Collectors Club.

"While we recognize the legal right of Victorians to seek an exemption to own a sword,

the AKC Club was NOT founded to cater for Members with no interest in knives (the core interest of the Club)

but just a desire to ‘own a sword’ – and nothing else! The AKC Club will relinquish its sword exemption in Victoria on the 30th September 2010"

In Victoria, the Control of Weapons Act 1990 (the Act) lists knives and other bladeware under Prohibited Weapons or Controlled Weapons.

 

If I were a member of this " club " and/or association, ... I would be cancelling my membership EVEN IF I ONLY COLLECTED kinves ! This is just the type of ..... attitude that brings back Martin Niemollers poem : " In Germany, they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me -- and by that time there was nobody left to speak up ".

 

The only way to fight " facisim " is to face up to it .......... certainly not compromise. The lessons of 70 years ago are soon forgotten, ... all it takes is a " control everything " attitude by one or two Countries that we would like to think of as " Free " to infect the rest of the world. Hopefully I will be long gone before the whole of the so called " Western World " adopts the level of Police State mentality exhibited by the UK, Ireland, Australia. ............ Ron Watson

[Stephen]

Hopefully I will be long gone before the whole of the so called " Western World " adopts the level of Police State mentality exhibited by the UK, Ireland, Australia

 

Ron who then will be left to speak up? I hope i am and can still grunt a pack and gun. Not very Nihonto related is it, mod edit a will.

[moss]

Ron,

Hope you don't fall off the mortal coil too soon,we as a society appear to forget lessons learned, all too rapidly.

It is good to see there are still people out there with enough conviction and confidence to remind others of how we ended up in this civilised western society.

Hopefully clear heads will prevail in the decisions that will be dished out to us in regards to edged weapons.

Perhaps they could link sword ownership to the firearms license and for those that don't have one they could go through the licensing process ,join the sporting shooters and add even more lobbying power to their numbers....Just a thought

I wonder how the SSAA(Sporting Shooters Association Australia)would go with that

 

Cheers Moss

[paulb]

Ron,

before you give your blood pressure an overload, let me re-assure you that although there are many and numerous faults within the UK it is far from a "Police State". Most of the stupidity we face comes not from a desire to control but a perceived need to protect the rights of minorities and the vulnerable. Is the sword ban effective? absollutely not, was it worth doing? no. Has it had any real effect on collectors? not really.

The ebay ban on shipping to the UK was not a result of this legislation but a response to media pressure, specifically the BBC, for selling knives to minors. Many collecotrs within the UK still bid on, buy and import swords via ebay and many other sites.

While probably no longer my favourite place to live there are many far worse places to be than in the UK

regards

Paul

[Jean]

Paul

 

"Right or wrong, first my country" and "Honi soit qui mal y pense" :D

[David Flynn]

Maybe it's time to have another go at orginising a sword club. The last attempt, the Japanese sword soc. Australia, managed to last a few years, but never enough members.

[moss]

David,

Count me in

How many members would be required to make it sustainable and legitimately recognised?

I will help where I can.

 

Cheers Moss

[David Flynn]

I'm not sure Moss. Unfortunately, I believe internal politics destroyed the last attempt. Hopefully next year, we will be holding another Shinsa. As this is probably the place where most Australian collectors would be assembled at one time, maybe it would also be an appropriate time to ask for submissions. I suppose though, if enough Australian collectors were to discuss the possibility on this forum, maybe something may occur.

[moss]

David ,

I guess that politics do bugger up things,there may be more at stake for some members so the radical elements may be able to be controlled.

NHMB seems to have the politics under control.

I will be at the Shinza so I guess lets see how much interest is shown here in the interim?

 

Cheers Moss

[Brian]

If I remember correctly, there were issues with the stupid rules there, enforcing special and expensive insurance policies and other logistical nightmares.

Sorry..but that is just bull...and the reason why so many countries are going down the tubes due to political correctness.

I co-founded the small "South African Japanese Sword Society" and we have been doing quite well. No insurance needed, so safe needed, no special laws or regulations. We are allowed to think for ourselves and determine what is safe, right and wrong. Works for me.

I am with Ron, although I guess I have to add in my private capacity and not as the forum owner.

 

Brian

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

While probably no longer my favourite place to live there are many far worse places to be than in the UK

 

As far as swords goes, Italy is surely such a place. Notwithstanding this, it is perfectly possible to purchase, sell, import, export, collect, show and enjoy them.

 

I think that John and Brian would love to have the UK's availability of weapons to study, together with the restriction laws, where they live.

 

To the Victorians : "sursum corda" and go ahead.

[John A Stuart]

If it will help, I am willing to become a member of any Japanese sword society or club to help swell the numbers of members in that country. I do not know if there is some type of quorum needed to meet guidelines for establishment of such entities in these countries, but, you have my full support. John