Sa Yukihide

[mike yeon]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm doing some research on the shin-shinto master Sa Yukihide. I have a bit of information on the o'sa/chikuzen sa school from the koto period but not much on Sa Yukihide.

 

What I'm specifically looking for are kantei points. Can anyone help or maybe recommend a good book on the shin-shinto sa school?

 

Thank you!

 

mike

[nagamaki - Franco]

New Years greetings

 

The "Nihonto Newsletter", by Albert Yamanaka, the complete set (January, 1968 - June, 1972), rearranged by Paul Allman. Unbound, four volume set with table of contents, 1,960 pages!

 

http://www.ncjsc.org/pubs_4_sale.htm

 

Albert Yamanaka was a polisher in the Honami tradition and a student of Honami Koson. Yes, Sa Yukihide kantei is described.

 

Franco

[Brian]

Drat..where is Darcy when you need him?

I think he had a decent write-up on Sa Yukihide a while back..but maybe I am mistaken. He did sell one and I am sure he would have had a lot of research on his site when it was listed there.

 

Brian

[mike yeon]

Drat..where is Darcy when you need him

 

Seriously, his item descriptions are second to none, they read like bedtime stories to nihonto enthusiasts.

[Jean]

Hi Mike,

 

Here are kantei points by Honami Koson :

 

Quoted :

 

Sa Yukihide, student of Suishinsi Masahide

 

Style : "Shinto den with style of Soshu Den"

 

"Kissaki is made long but the fukura will be lacking.

The width of the hamon from about the mid-section towards the boshi becomes wide and rough"

 

Unquoted.

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi Mike,try to get the following sources:

Illustrated Record of the Yushu Rated Swords (Yushu-to Zuroku) from the (former!) Japanese Sword Preservation Society (Nihon Token Hozon Kai-N.T.H.K.) vol.1 to 3 :in Japanese with oshigata.There is a booklet to each of them in English,edited by the former Executive Secretary Yoshikawa Koen and translated by Gordon L.Robson.Vol.1 has 2 results (nr.98 and 99),vol.2 one (nr.106) and vol.3 also one result (nr.97).Each Kantei has the following points:Type,Period,Nagasa,Sori,Kitae-hada,Hamon,Boshi,Nakago and Remarks.

Example from vol.1-nr.98:

"Remarks:Yukihide was born in Chikuzen province,and is said to have been a descendant of the famous swordsmith "Sa." He studied the technique of sword making under Shimizu Hisayoshi.In general,blades made by Yukihide are of shallow curvature and sturdy form.As to the surface texture,it tends to be of straight grain pattern with thick nie and nioi exhibiting his marked individuality.This example was made at the residence of the Tosa clan at Sunamura,Fukagawa,Edo.Its ji and ha are clear and dense."Ludolf

[mike yeon]

Thank you gentlemen. Your help and information is much appreciated. I'm researching because I own a katana signed sa yukihide dated 1853.

 

As with most big name guys I take the mei with a grain of salt. I purchased the blade because well, I liked it a lot. Lately I feel that there are a lot of things going for it. It's never been submitted for papers, and I'm considering having it sent to Japan.

 

Pros

 

Mei and nakago are well done. I've compared the mei to about 5 oshigata and it looks good. Yasurimei, shape, etc. all match. Plus its signed tachi mei (which I read he was prone to doing.)

 

Shape. Very thick and heavy. This blade is 3.5 CM at the hamachi and tapers to about 2.5 CM at the yokote. 66CM nagasa. Tori-sori. O'kissaki. Looks like a cut down nambochuko blade.

 

Hamon, I can go either way. It's notareba based in nioi with ko-nie throughout. It was polished in Japan about 30 years ago and done in keisho, so the hada pops but the hamon is a bit obscured.

 

Cons

 

The hada starts as masame then mid way through, then goes into this crazy o'itame pattern through to the shinoji.

 

Anyway, here are picts. Comments welcome.

[mike yeon]

The mei.

[mike yeon]

Anyway, It's hard to see the hamon in the picts (it definitely a bit more wavy and irregular.) Any insights welcome. I'll try and take better pictures.

 

Thanks

 

mike

[Stephen]

I think I have a solution here, you have had the sword to long in your possession, it needs to come visit me for a few months then when you get it back you'd say wow do I own a nice Sa Yukihide

 

dont see any cons to it in my mind.

[Mark]

The sword looks very nice, i am sure it is a pleasure to own. As for the mei, some history of the sword may help. Did you own the sword when it was polished in Japan? If not do you know who owned it then? It would be interesting to find out why it was not submitted for shinsa when it was there (if it was not submitted). An owner, who invests the expense of polish and related expenses, would usually have he blade papered while it is in Japan. I would think this especoilly if the sword has a big name. A friend of mine has an interesting saying, he says " a sword comes back from Japan with the best papers it will get". I have found there is a lot of wisdom in that. Many sellers try to come up with excuses why a blade does not have papers, or that it will get better papers, but you have to ask yourself why it does not have the paper (or better paper) now.

 

Mark J

[Curran]

Nice looking sword. I know little about the smith, so cannot comment other than that at least one excellent gimei of his is floating around (last in Japan I believe?).

 

I cannot agree with that papers comment. I just don't much believe in Toku Hozon anymore, and some others feel that way. There is Hozon, and then there is Juyo. Toku Hozon is often a waste of money. Once... only once... I got a specific smith and generation attribution whereas the Hozon had given it just to the school and time period. Ironically... that sword came from Japan originally.

Last 11 items I submitted to the NBTHK, only 1 did I bother with Toku Hozon. Looking at that Toku Hozon paper now, I wonder... why did I spend the money?

 

As for the sword coming out of Japan without papers, thats a tough one. There have been others with no papers that came out and have gone as high as Juyo. Sometimes they come out of Japan with respected 3rd party opinions. Sometimes not. One of my favorites.... the 3rd party opinion was wrong and so were some smart people here in the US. I saw the sword and it needled at me as something special. I was close with my attribution, but off. Still wish I could have bought it (I wanted it for the koshirae nearly as much as the blade).

One year later, the blade is Juyo. Great blade. Great attribution (one of the more impressive calls by the NBTHK, where once it was made I read-up and said... D@*N how did none of us get that).

 

But for a signed blade coming out of Japan without papers... a bit more questionable.

 

Very sincere "Good luck!".

Hope it papers.

[dkirkpatrick]

Mike,

 

Just my .02 cents, I looked in Fujishiro's and the Koza and did'nt think the mei looked quite right. In the Koza particularly there is an exact example of this mei on a naginata on pg. 53. There is also an example of Yukihide under the section at the end of this book discussing gimei as well as shoshin mei oshigata within the text of the book. Hope this helps.

[mike yeon]

Thank you everyone for your comments. As for the sword's provenence, it used to belong to a U.S. collector who had long stopped collecting (an older gentleman who primarily collected during the 1970s). The stories he tells me about the prices and blades that were floating around back then makes me want to build a time machine.

 

Anyway, he sent the blade to Japan in the early 70s to who he described as an amature togishi (he ultimately was not happy with the polish). He never thought to paper the blade when it was in Japan (he mentioned the majority of western collectors were not as informed back in the day and you really had to know people to get around).

 

Also, Curran, this guy would agree with you on papers. He once told me that when the NBTHK used to come to the U.S. back in the 80s some of the judges would reject a blade and there would be a crowd of Japanese dealers waiting to buy the "gimei" blades. I have no reason to doubt the man. I still like papers =)

 

Ultimately he thought the hada (not the mei) did not match with the body of Yukihide's work. I tend to agree. If it's gimei, someone went through a lot of trouble to make this piece. But all in all, I bought the blade because it's simply gorgeous (although I wish the polish was sashikomi). The thing is a beast. It also came with very nice koshirae (black lacquered saya with real gold flakes, soten school tsougu.)

 

Thanks again for the commentary! And if anyone can get me more info on Sa Yukihide, please send on over.

 

P.S. Stephen, how about I send you the tsunagi of my "sa yukihide"?

[mike yeon]

PPS. As for the mei, I saw the one in Fujishiro's (which looks tighter) maybe because of the fact it was the nakago of a naginata? The nakago on my blade is large as well. 8.75" long and wide.

 

Also, my picts aren't the best but in hand it's easier to compare stroke direction/spacing to other oshigata (the ones in sato's shinto book) and they look "right".

 

mike

[Stephen]

FYI pix from the Nihonto Koza and Yoran

and yours rotated and croped so you can do a side by side

[mike yeon]

Stephen, thank you very much for the picts sir. The yoran balde is especially helpful in that it says the hamon is nioi-deki and hada is itame.

 

Still inbetween on the mei. Looking at these examples and the ones in fujishiro's and kanzan's it just illustrates that each signature has subtle differences but the same intent. It's like how when we sign our signatures, they all "look" the same, are written with the same purpose and technique, but no 2 examples are identical.

 

Gotta love this part of collecting. This blade will make one more stop at the MNYJSC meeting at the end of the month, then hopefully, off to Japan.

 

Thanks again everyone.

 

mike

[Curran]

Mike,

 

At the meeting, show it to Kodama. Hopefully he will show up to the meeting. I miss attending the New York club.

 

If I may ask, from whom did you buy the sword? You can contact me offline if you want. I'm mostly just curious. Your description of the seller reminded me an awful lot of a gentleman from New Jersey.

[mike yeon]

Curran,

 

The MNYJSC meetings are great. We're lucky to have Kodama sensei and Izuka sensei. I showed Kodama san my kunitsuna wakizashi last month which had a bit of light rust on an otherwise clean polish and he offered to remove it with fingerstones for me at the next meeting.

 

It's amazing how you can study a blade on your own, come to your conclusions and then these guys will just open your eyes to unthought of details in under 30 seconds. Same goes for many members.

 

Are you no longer in the area that you can't attend meetings any longer?

 

cheers.

 

mike

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Mike, no matter about what will come out, the blade is a beauty, even

only by these pics. You're a lucky man.

[mike yeon]

Thanks Carlo,

 

It looks even better in person. I usually avoid suspect blades but this sword is a beauty. I went with my gut on this one.

 

mike

[Curran]

Mike,

 

Nope- the wife and I let the Jersey City apartment go a while back. We are now in the Sarasota, FL area.

 

I love where we live half the year, and hate it the other half (hurricanes and all). We'll see what we are doing in the long run. Both wife and I miss the NY area, so we will probably either move back there or "snowbird" back and forth. Small chance we may move to Scotland, but most likely just some FL <-> NY life.

Oddly enough, we mostly miss certain types of food. Who would believe you cannot find Jamaican food on this coast, and we hafta drive over 1 hour to the nearest mediocre Korean resteraunt.

 

Yes, I miss living about 2 blocks from Kodama and being to see him. Not a whole lot of Nihonto down here. I've pruned my collection back a bit too. Mostly tsuba and books. Not as much fun without other collectors around.