Is this a strong candidate for Tobuketsu Shinsa ?

[Bosco]

Hi, 

 

I was just wondering how likely this will pass Tokubetsu hozon . Or just keep it as it is rather than waiting for a long time.

 

Blade seems to be in a healthy condition.

 

Nagasa : 71.7cm

Sori: 2.2cm

Moto haba: 3.1cm

Saki haba: 2 cm

Moto Kasane : 0.8cm

Saki kasane: 0.6cm

Weight : 818 grams

I tried to upload all the photos but most over size.

 

Bishou Nagafune Sukesada - Tensho 12th August .

 

 

[Rivkin]

Should not be an issue... except for the ware, but its in shinogi ji so maybe ok.

But why?

[Bosco]

1 minute ago, Rivkin said:

Should not be an issue... except for the ware, but its in shinogi ji so maybe ok.

But why?

Well, to increase its value for my personal collection. I heard its take long time. But how much difference its make to go from hozon to tokubetsu hozon ?.

[Rivkin]

For an experienced collector - none.

[sabiji]

If you start to view your collection as an investment, this will inevitably lead to disappointment.

[Rayhan]

37 minutes ago, sabiji said:

If you start to view your collection as an investment, this will inevitably lead to disappointment.

Everything that takes up your time as an individual is an investment. Time is a fleeting currency. 

 

From a monetary standpoint there will be an increase for this sword from Hozon to Tokubetsu Hozon but not by very much. The risk is time to get there, rejection by NBTHK if certain parameters are not met, insurance, shipping cost, etc. This sword might go up slightly but after all the variable extra cost it might just end up break even.

[sabiji]

Both time and money can be wasted without any problems. It's always a question of point of view.

[Bosco]

1 hour ago, sabiji said:

If you start to view your collection as an investment, this will inevitably lead to disappointment.

Hi Thomas,

 

For me, it’s not an investment. Im an investor and this is clearly a liability 😆. But as an investor I always want to have back up plan by cover/recover in case I need to sell it back. So I’m working out the cost to get higher paper and the benefits it brings. Right now I don’t see much can be made by tokubetsu paper so I’m going to keep it as it is. I bought 5 for the last 3 days. This should be interesting once they arrive.

[Brano]

4 hours ago, Bosco said:

Hi Thomas,

 

For me, it’s not an investment. Im an investor and this is clearly a liability 😆. But as an investor I always want to have back up plan by cover/recover in case I need to sell it back. So I’m working out the cost to get higher paper and the benefits it brings. Right now I don’t see much can be made by tokubetsu paper so I’m going to keep it as it is. I bought 5 for the last 3 days. This should be interesting once they arrive.

With the exception of the highest quality blades, there is almost zero chance that your investment in nihonto will appreciate - even in terms of absolute value.
And I am not comparing this from a time perspective compared to an investment in, for example, the SP500 index, which can double in a decade over the long term
If you are not above average educated in nihonto , do not buy blades as part of an investment portfolio
If you buy a blade with Hozon papers, but in Juyo quality, the price will almost always be close to what the quality of the blade represents and not the papers that come with the blade.
Be aware that blade dealers have been in business for decades and they know what they are selling

[Geraint]

And just a minor correction, the mei is, 'Bishu Osafune Sukesada'.

 

All the best. 

[Jacques]

This kind of mei is often an indicator of kazu-uchi mono.

[Bosco]

4 hours ago, Geraint said:

And just a minor correction, the mei is, 'Bishu Osafune Sukesada'.

 

All the best. 

Thank you, google translate at its best. I was confused with Kanji as well.

[Bosco]

4 hours ago, Jacques said:

This kind of mei is often an indicator of kazu-uchi mono.

I had a quick search about this kazu uchi mono. You said this since 2021, this is only information you said about this signature. Any other information like how well the sword was forged, how did it survive the massive flood ?. I understand what you said came right off the book but come on man, give me any extra info ?. 

We gotta be open minded when judging an antique piece. Just because the book said it’s 1 then everything you see is 1. I know everyone is well experienced and educated here, but for a new comer and new collector like me its a good way to draw me away from this community. 

 

[Bosco]

5 hours ago, Brano said:

With the exception of the highest quality blades, there is almost zero chance that your investment in nihonto will appreciate - even in terms of absolute value.
And I am not comparing this from a time perspective compared to an investment in, for example, the SP500 index, which can double in a decade over the long term
If you are not above average educated in nihonto , do not buy blades as part of an investment portfolio
If you buy a blade with Hozon papers, but in Juyo quality, the price will almost always be close to what the quality of the blade represents and not the papers that come with the blade.
Be aware that blade dealers have been in business for decades and they know what they are selling

Thanks Brano,

 

I said before it’s not an investment, but I do like it to hold its value when it’s come future resell. I’m new to nihonto world. Books is coming, i got some e book from friend to learn but I prefer a blade in hand to compare and see with my naked eyes. I bought 5 recently so I want to make sure they do have some sort of value/art/uniqueness to it. So I know I will highly sell them off in the future and go for something superior for a heirloom piece.

[Jacques]

22 minutes ago, Bosco said:

I had a quick search about this kazu uchi mono. You said this since 2021, this is only information you said about this signature. Any other information like how well the sword was forged, how did it survive the massive flood ?. I understand what you said came right off the book but come on man, give me any extra info ?. 

We gotta be open minded when judging an antique piece. Just because the book said it’s 1 then everything you see is 1. I know everyone is well experienced and educated here, but for a new comer and new collector like me its a good way to draw me away from this community. 

 

I'm sorry, but I can't comment on the quality of a sword without having had it in hands, I'm not an extralucid clairvoyant. The flood destroyed the forges, not the swords that were made before. 

[Bosco]

12 minutes ago, Jacques said:

I'm sorry, but I can't comment on the quality of a sword without having had it in hands, I'm not an extralucid clairvoyant. The flood destroyed the forges, not the swords that were made before. 

I see, nice conversation. 

[Geraint]

Dear Minh.

 

For some detail on kazu uchimono see here, https://nihonto.com/a-brief-study-of-bizen-blades-of-the-muromachi-era/  To gain more insight you are ging to need to do some seriou study, asking for opinions here is fine but as Jacques intimated we are going from photographs that are moderately good but don't reveal everything, the boshi for example.  You have the lead that, in general swords from this time and province with this mei are considered as kazu uchi mono so what does that mean for the chance of TH?

 

What about this sword leads you to believe that it has a chance of going to TH?  Given that it is Sue Bizen with the classic mei and nothing more it has papered as a genuine sword, is there something that leads you to think that is has been underestimated by the Japanese seller?  If there is something to be gained by having it at TH level why didn't the Japanese seller take it further?  What do you think about the slightly loose forging evident in the last photograph?

 

Just some questions for you to think about.

 

All the best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bosco]

11 minutes ago, Geraint said:

Dear Minh.

 

For some detail on kazu uchimono see here, https://nihonto.com/a-brief-study-of-bizen-blades-of-the-muromachi-era/  To gain more insight you are ging to need to do some seriou study, asking for opinions here is fine but as Jacques intimated we are going from photographs that are moderately good but don't reveal everything, the boshi for example.  You have the lead that, in general swords from this time and province with this mei are considered as kazu uchi mono so what does that mean for the chance of TH?

 

What about this sword leads you to believe that it has a chance of going to TH?  Given that it is Sue Bizen with the classic mei and nothing more it has papered as a genuine sword, is there something that leads you to think that is has been underestimated by the Japanese seller?  If there is something to be gained by having it at TH level why didn't the Japanese seller take it further?  What do you think about the slightly loose forging evident in the last photograph?

 

Just some questions for you to think about.

 

All the best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

just fact, dealer offer to send to shinsa with strong guarantee. So I’m asking is it worth the try or keep it that way, it’s a cost effective question. As Rivkin said above, I will keep it that way. Thank you for this comment, its hard to find someone I can actually having a discussion with rather than the one just here to drop a statement.