Bamboo fence tsuba

[Kurikata]

Dear all,

 

Some estimated NMB members have decyphered this tsuba signature as being :

right side: 癸巳十月

left side : 心哉彫

 

Unfortunatly nobody as a smith is referenced with these kanji in books which are available to me.

 

Does someone can find similar tsuba in style to drive me in the right direction ?

Thank you. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

The 癸巳 is year in the 60 year Zodiac cycle. As we had good posts on tsuba age and dates, I think these might be plausible ones. 1593, 1653, 1713, 1773. 十月 would be 10th month.

 

Unfortunately I am pretty much clueless when it comes to tsuba makers so cannot help on actual maker or even school.

[ROKUJURO]

Bruno,

how safe is it that this TSUBA is not cast? The photo is a bit fuzzy which makes it difficult for me to see details.

[Stephen]

I'd call cast from the rounded mei

[Dan tsuba]

Cast iron or not cast iron.

Keep on guessing.  Even the so called "experts" (Grand Masters) can't seem to figure it out!

Who will ever invent a cheap non-invasive metallurgical test to determine and discern cast iron from hand forged iron?

Wait, that has already been discussed before on another thread!.

Let's not go there (again!)!

My personal opinion is that this tsuba is cast iron.  But then again, what the heck do I know!

Let me see how many downvotes this post will get me!

Ha, ha, ha, ha, etc!

Onward!

.

.

 

[Spartancrest]

Not the same design but a similar discussion back in 2010 -  I have not yet found another with the same design which is unusual if indeed it does turn out to be cast. Nothing to stop "one off" cast pieces being made, it would make a lot of sense and help to hide them. Bruno's example stands out to me because of the rectangular nakago-ana a feature of Chinese guards? 

 

See also https://colbase.nich.go.jp/collection_items/tnm/F-19668?locale=en a signed curved bamboo example like in the linked thread.

 

[Kurikata]

Hi everybody,

 

First of all thank you for your warm interest and you comments.

 

Difficult for me to state if my tsuba is cast or not. Probably it is... anyway it has been mounted on a sword.

 

As a final statement which is not objective I like it very much. On the objective side I paid 30 euros for it. 

 

Thank you again.

[Spartancrest]

  On 4/1/2025 at 7:09 PM, Kurikata said:

I paid 30 euros for it. 

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Even if it is a cast, that is not a bad price - a unique cast? well it would be a bargain considering the effort in making it. [Confidentially I rather like it as well ]

[Dan tsuba]

So, opinions are that the tsuba shown by Kurikata may be cast iron.

As member Jussi Ekholm stated “The 癸巳 is year in the 60 year Zodiac cycle. As we had good posts on tsuba age and dates, I think these might be plausible ones. 1593, 1653, 1713, 1773. 十月 would be 10th month.”

So, are you telling me this is a cast iron tsuba possibly made in the Edo period or before?

No, no way!  That goes against everything that anybody knows about tsuba!

Or I can refer you to my "Tsuba casting molds?" thread.

Onward!

[Scogg]

Dan, please consider the possibility that the date on the tsuba is not honest - especially likely if it happens to be cast. 

[Dan tsuba]

Thanks Sam.

What you say may be true.

I have one question.

Are you a tsuba dealer?

[Scogg]

Just a collector of stuff that I like. Trying to keep my Tosogu collection very minimal at the moment.

 

Lets not derail this thread 

[Dan tsuba]

Sam I agree, let's not derail this thread.

So, what is your opinion on the tsuba?

Cast iron or hand forged?

My opinion it is cast iron.

But then again, what the heck do I know (not very much and nothing for sure!).

Onward!

[Scogg]

It’s a good question, and the rectangular nakago ana raises more questions.

 

My first impression was that it was hand forged. After reading others opinions I’m not so sure now. A part of the reason I want to keep my tsuba collection minimal is because I’m often reminded how little I know about tsuba 

 

All the best, 

-Sam 

[Brian]

I don't see anything really indicating this is cast. Especially since the condition has rounded off a lot of the detail, including mei.
For me, not cast

[Kurikata]

After a more detailed analysis of this tsuba, it appears that it was probably forged and not cast (see the attached photos). Having shown it to French collectors, they confirmed to me that this tsuba was not cast.

[Jesta]

  On 4/2/2025 at 1:43 PM, Kurikata said:

After a more detailed analysis of this tsuba, it appears that it was probably 
forged and not cast (see the attached photos). 
Having shown it to French collectors, they confirmed to me that this tsuba 
was not cast.

 

Expand  

I would agree. There is nothing I can see to indicate that it was cast rather than hand forged. It is unusual, but that’s a good thing… 

[Kurikata]

Thank you Justin and Brian for confirming that my tsuba is not cast.

 

I still have to discover who made it and what would be his influence/ school.

 

[jsv]

Buying cast tsuba is not good even if its cheap, have some pride when you collect. 

 

 

 

[Scogg]

I am still not qualified to determine if it's cast or not, especially from photos - but some of those blue circles appear to be depicting how bamboo looks when a branch sprouts from a node. Which could be interpreted as an extra level of detail rather than a casting flaw. 

-Sam

 

[George KN]

Hi Bruno, I like the design!

 

It's definitely been mounted, and looks to have some real age to it (the way the rust is peeling on the inside of the nakago ana heavily suggests this).

 

If it is a real hand-forged piece though (I can't see any seams which is good), I still think someone may have messed around with it. There's clear evidence of rust and pitting all over, but it all looks the same colour as the surface:

 

 


Similarly, the copper in the nakago ana is glossy? I've never seen this before. It feels like someone may have applied a layer or two of something. One to darken any rust spots (but not actually remove the flaking rust like they should have), and a second to make it look so shiny? (Black shoe polish perhaps?)

I think combined, extra layers like this would reduce the level of detail we can see (especially in the mei), giving a similar impression to it being cast. 

 

At 30 euro's though I'd say you did really well!

 

(FYI I am a tsuba novice - but I have worked on some removing heavy rust before)