Suaka Tsuba - Shonai or Higo?

[Jake6500]

Hello fellow tsuba and tosogu collectors!

 

I recently acquired a new tsuba that is still on its way from Japan, an interesting suaka tsuba featuring a number of brass kamon.

 

This tsuba has papers and has been attributed as Shonai however the prominence of the Hosokawa mon lends credence to the idea that the tsuba may in fact be Higo work. The tsuba also appears to be quite early Edo and seems older than other Shonai suaka examples I could find.

 

This is the first suaka tsuba I have purchased so I am far from an expert on the material. My question to the forum therefore is, how old do you think this tsuba is and do you think the attribution on the certificate of authenticity is correct or incorrect? What sways your opinion one way or the other?

 

From my limited research and the assistance of a fellow collector and forum member I believe early Higo might be a better attribution but would love a second (third, fourth or fifth) opinion!

 

Thoughts? How would you date or attribute this one?

 

 

[kyushukairu]

Shonai. There's a similar tsuba (in terms of shape, material, and fukurin) by Akita Shoami Denbei, who was originally from Shonai

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

Hard to argue with Kyle on the above!

[Spartancrest]

  On 3/25/2025 at 11:49 AM, kyushukairu said:

(in terms of shape)

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  Nishigaki Higo Kinko  NBTHK Hozon   https://nihontocraft.com/Higo_Nishigaki_Kinko_Tsuba.htm

 

   Also Nishigaki, in Yamagane  https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/tsuba-kodogu/c272-nishigaki-tsuba-fuji-in-yamagane/

 

I am not sure the shape is relevant but these two are in soft metal [Kinko]

 

[Bugyotsuji]

I was thinking yamagane too.

[Jake6500]

Interesting responses! Seems we have a bit of a 50/50 split between Akita Shonai and Nishigaki Higo, or at least no clear consensus...

 

Whilst it seems like a divisive one I think the Hosokawa kamon is the determining factor for me given that the Hosokawa ruled the Higo domain and there is more of a direct link there, however the Shonai example posted gives a lot of new insight into how the NBTHK made its attribution.

 

As Dale's example above and the following example from Hirata Hikozo of the Higo school indicate, neither the shape nor brass rim were exclusive to the Shonai school...

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, I'm interested to know more about yamagane v.s. suaka as materials. How can I accurately discern the difference between yamagane and suaka? Is the deep red v.s. more brownish colour the key to differentiating the two and what would this suggest about the period or school of craftsmanship? 

[Curran]

I agree with Shonai, though @kyushukairu nailed it a lot harder than I could.

I was very tempted to bid on this tsuba. *Had* to resist, but I did cave and buy another Shonai work recently.

 

For me, the differences Shonai vs Higo are most visible in:

    (a)  the copper  [I'm avoiding the yamagane vs suaka topic]

    (b)  patina recipe

    (c)  design and carving style

 

I totally get the Shonai vs Higo (mostly 3rd gen and later Nishigaki) on this sort of tsuba.

Without checking the books, memory either the 2nd or 3rd gen Nishigaki had some Shonai training or a teacher who was Shonai trained ?

I think that came from Markus Sesko's works.

[kyushukairu]

Jake, firstly, Akita and Shonai are two separate regions. The founder of the Akita-Shoami school (Denbei) was born in Shonai, and his older brother  (Kiyonari) who he learned a lot from, was a master of the Shonai-Shoami school. My point was that Denbei, who was originally from Shonai (but later moved to Akita) trained in the style of Shonai-Shoami. So even though he later developed his own style, we also see works in the Shonai style by him, and the picture I posted is one such example.

I know it has become fashionable to question NBTHK attributions as they are often generic and occasionally make mistakes, but the people who do these have seriously studied swords and fittings for a significant proportion of their lives. Perhaps you want it to be a Higo tsuba because such an attribution seems more appealing than Shonai, but it seems as though you are overly fixating on the 'Hosokawa' kamon. There are also four other kamon on that tsuba which you are not taking into consideration. Do these have any connection to Hosokawa?

 

Moreover, the fukurin on the Hirata Hikozo is completely different to your tsuba and the Denbei example (as is the shape), and is not comparable at all. Odawara fukurin are a kantei point for Hirata Hikozo. Of the two tsuba Dale listed, only one has papers (to Nishigaki). The one on Grey's website, doesn't have a fukurin and has a very different aesthetic (it's much chunkier).

 

I think Curran's insights (a, b, and c) explain the difference in attributions between the papered Nishigaki and yours very well. Also, look at the tagane around the nakago-ana on your tsuba, the * shaped tagane was not used by any Higo master (that I am aware of). Also, Curran knows the Higo schools very well, so if he disagrees that it is Higo, I think that it's right to accept the NBTHK's attribution of 'Shonai'.

[Kurikata]

My Shonai Shoami Tsuba......Definitively all tsuba of this style are described as belonging to Shonai School.

[Bugyotsuji]

Many Daimyo around Japan used the nine-star Kuyomon, including Date Masamune, but possibly the Hosokawa were the most famous.

 

As to Yamagane, I heard just recently that it is copper extracted 'as is' from a mine, meaning that it includes trace impurities, i.e. it is inconsistent throughout Japan. Suaka by contrast is literally 'pure copper' that has had the impurities removed. 

[Jake6500]

  On 3/26/2025 at 2:46 AM, kyushukairu said:

Jake, firstly, Akita and Shonai are two separate regions. The founder of the Akita-Shoami school (Denbei) was born in Shonai, and his older brother  (Kiyonari) who he learned a lot from, was a master of the Shonai-Shoami school. My point was that Denbei, who was originally from Shonai (but later moved to Akita) trained in the style of Shonai-Shoami. So even though he later developed his own style, we also see works in the Shonai style by him, and the picture I posted is one such example.

I know it has become fashionable to question NBTHK attributions as they are often generic and occasionally make mistakes, but the people who do these have seriously studied swords and fittings for a significant proportion of their lives. Perhaps you want it to be a Higo tsuba because such an attribution seems more appealing than Shonai, but it seems as though you are overly fixating on the 'Hosokawa' kamon. There are also four other kamon on that tsuba which you are not taking into consideration. Do these have any connection to Hosokawa?

 

Moreover, the fukurin on the Hirata Hikozo is completely different to your tsuba and the Denbei example (as is the shape), and is not comparable at all. Odawara fukurin are a kantei point for Hirata Hikozo. Of the two tsuba Dale listed, only one has papers (to Nishigaki). The one on Grey's website, doesn't have a fukurin and has a very different aesthetic (it's much chunkier).

 

I think Curran's insights (a, b, and c) explain the difference in attributions between the papered Nishigaki and yours very well. Also, look at the tagane around the nakago-ana on your tsuba, the * shaped tagane was not used by any Higo master (that I am aware of). Also, Curran knows the Higo schools very well, so if he disagrees that it is Higo, I think that it's right to accept the NBTHK's attribution of 'Shonai'.

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Interesting, thank you for the additional explanation.

 

Tbh I don't really care if the tsuba is Shonai or Higo, I actually did not have tsuba from either style in my existing collection (until this one) and I don't have a particular preference.

 

There is a reason why I have been fixated on the Hosokawa mon, namely that it is the most repeated mon on the tsuba appearing a total of 4 times (twice on either side). This would seemingly indicate (at least to me) that this mon holds particular significance. It is possible that this is over-fixating on my part but it is not without reason.

 

The next most repeated kamon is the Kamei clan mon which is featured 3 times whilst the remaining mon are only featured once each. Both the Hosokawa and Kamei clans were based in Southern Japan during the Edo Period (Tsuwamoto domain Southern Honshu and Higo domain, Kyushu). Correct me if I'm mistaken but this would seem to be geographically incongruent with Akita prefecture, Dewa han (unless this is a different Akita) OR Shonai (which is not much further South). 

 

Another of the remaining two mon in the tsuba is the Goto clan who were based in Hizen (Nagasaki) and used a Hanabishi inside a circle as their crest... This also seemingly points to a Southern influence to me.

 

So I suppose my question now is assuming the Shonai Shoami attribution is correct, why/how would a far Northern tsuba wind up featuring all these apparently far Southern kamon?

 

EDIT: I also do want to add, the Hikozo example I posted was purely for a discussion of materials used. I was not trying to suggest it was stylistically the same and I referred to Dale's post for a comparison of shape. Essentially my point was that the shape and matching materials had both been observed within Higo, so it was not inconceivable that Nishigaki Higo tsuba with matching materials and shape might exist.

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Jake,

Here is a Kamon map of southwestern Japan and Kyūshū. I am sure you have consulted such maps already, but please compare this with the area of Kansai and east which follows this post.

 

Kyūshū

 

[Bugyotsuji]

I get what you are saying but we can see Hanabishi for example in both areas.

 

Actually my own sense is that the artisan chose some brass Mon (rimmed) disks almost at random, for the pattern rather than any affiliation.

 

 

[Jake6500]

  On 3/27/2025 at 2:52 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

I get what you are saying but we can see Hanabishi for example in both areas.

 

 

 

 

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I see what you are saying and you definitely can find the 9 star Kuyomon or Hanabishi in both areas, however as far as i know the use of the encircled Hanabishi and Kamei clan mon do not appear in the Eastern regions... Then again with all the different mon and samurai families that were floating around who knows?

 

Thanks for posting the maps Piers, they're a great resource!

 

This thread has resulted in an interesting discussion and I've learned a lot.

 

Bruno's tsuba is definitely the closest matching example I have seen.