Who chose the design of a tsuba?

[Cornelius]

Who chose the design of a tsuba? The manufacturer or the buyer? 

I am talking about the case of tsubas illustrating various subjects.

Is there any concrete Information in this regard?

[Mantis dude]

Both scenarios I believe are in play.  Schools produced their work, copying designs.  The designs had to appeal to users.  Trends and fashions effected the designs to appeal to evolving tastes.  I think this is how most pieces where created and sold.  However,  you could order a specific design or construct which I think more upper echelon individuals chose this method.

[Cornelius]

Yes, theoretical both scenarios are in play. But I'm interested in whether there is any concrete information (however small) in this regard.
 To put things a little differently: do we have any concrete information about the existence of a connection between the subject illustrated by a tsuba and its owner?

 So far, I haven't really seen tsubas with representations of kamon, which could be an indication that the decoration/illustration of a tsuba was not in a very close connection with its owner. 

[Spartancrest]

1 hour ago, Cornelius said:

Do we have any concrete information about the existence of a connection between the subject illustrated by a tsuba and its owner?

 

We do have plenty of information that you could order from a pattern book, both these illustrations show no hitsu or nakago-ana so I would guess you could choose to have hitsu or not? The fact they don't have nakago-ana makes it difficult to guess what the size of the guard was intended to be. Both these illustrations date from 1880 so it could easily be intended for European collectors? There is nothing I can see that would point to a specific owner or clan group, which probably doesn't really answer the question but there are likely to be other pattern books where Kamon etc. could be found. 

[Jack Zacao]

Many high end Tsuba have word  ‘應需’ meaning by order by the signature 

[Mantis dude]

10 hours ago, Cornelius said:

 So far, I haven't really seen tsubas with representations of kamon, which could be an indication that the decoration/illustration of a tsuba was not in a very close connection with its owner. 

 

I think I am still missing exactly what you are looking for-  tsuba depicting kamon aren't uncommon.  There are famous sukashi designs with kamon around the entire tsuba.  even just typing in Kamon in this forum will show examples of tsuba or when I google plenty arise.  I believe there has been discussion of 2 kamon on a tsuba that perhaps represented the joining of 2 families, although it might have been with fuchi kashira.  However, you definitely find them on tsuba.  I  have a faint memory of someone asking if a tsuba could have belonged to samurai x based on the 2 kamon but that was really impossible to figure out.   Is that the sort of information you are looking for?

[Mantis dude]

Coincidently, I was searching for something else but came across this prior post on the topic:

I haven't very active on the forum for a long time.   took me forever to catchup on old posts and before I get behind again I'm trying to participate.  The forum has always been helpful and I just wanted to say thanks to the community.  Hope you find the prior discussion relevant.

 

[Mantis dude]

Looking for information for myself I seem to be coming across other info.  Following is from Christie's Compton catalog pg 232.  This might give you some place to start for more information. 

[Cornelius]

Greetings everyone!

I'm trying to figure out what the nature of the connection between the tsuba and the owner was. All the above discussion is very useful to me in this regard.
I will also read carefully the older post indicated by Mantis dude. It turns out to be very interesting in this regard.
Thank you all!
Any ideas, suggestions, on this topic are welcome.

[Jake6500]

On 3/23/2025 at 6:47 PM, Cornelius said:

Yes, theoretical both scenarios are in play. But I'm interested in whether there is any concrete information (however small) in this regard.
 To put things a little differently: do we have any concrete information about the existence of a connection between the subject illustrated by a tsuba and its owner?

 So far, I haven't really seen tsubas with representations of kamon, which could be an indication that the decoration/illustration of a tsuba was not in a very close connection with its owner. 

 

Cornelius, as Ken has said mon are not that uncommon on tsuba and there are at least one or two collectors on this forum who go out of their way to exclusively collect tosogu with samurai emblems. I myself am trying to build a small subcollection of 4 early or pre-Edo tsuba with kamon on them.

 

At this stage I have three such tsuba: One from the Muromachi Period featuring the Tsutsui clan mon, one from the Azuchi-Momoyama which appears to feature the Maeda clan mon and another early Edo Higo tsuba featuring the Hosokawa clan mon which I just purchased last week. I'll probably make a thread on that one soon to share and see what the forum thinks of it. The tsuba actually features some additional mon as well including those of the Kamei and (I think) Goto clans. All 3 of my tsuba are fairly simplistic in design with mokko-gata shape, but become increasingly decorative with the choice of base metals as time passes.

 

Long story short, tsuba of kamon definitely do exist and the further back you go, the less decorative tsuba get design wise (as a general, but not ironclad rule). It's important to remember that in the Edo period the sword became more a symbol of status and aesthetic expression than a practical tool of war. This allowed artisans and presumably consumers alike to explore more decorative and aesthetically appealing designs that related to other aspects of their everyday life such as their religious beliefs, environment, or local folklore among others.

[Toryu2020]

Here we have direct communication between the customer and the artists - dictating the subject as well as the terms - some very famous artists involved in this...

 

-t

 

THE NAKAI TOKUBETSU JÛYÔ KOSHIRAE - NIHONTO

[Tim Evans]

There is not a simple answer to this question, it really depends on time period and the status of the buyer or user. 

1. There are very fancy, expensive tsuba made about Meiji period, that were made as standalone objects to be admired in their boxes. Possibly some were made to order, some possibly made on spec.
2. Prior to that, when swords were worn, then the design was about the koshirae as a whole, not just the tsuba.  Here is an article by Fred Weissberg about a high end Edo period koshirae that still has the documentation and correspondence associated with the design process.  https://nihonto.com/nakai-koshirae/ This is very rare! These high end koshirae quite often had an integrated poetic or literary theme. 
3. There were obviously koshirae below this level of quality and customization. There were koshirae shops that could put together a koshirae based on personal taste and budget, either from tosogu provided by the owner or pieces sourced by or made by the shop. This is an art form and service that still exists today. 
4. There are some very old, documented, intact tachi koshirae. These follow very formal design rules and do not show much individuality. Sometimes there is documentation on who owned them.
5. Then there are what I call arsenal koshirae. These were mounted swords put together from whatever was handy and provided as needed to low level warriors by Daimyo or by shrines and temples.
6. There was an exhibition of historically preserved koshirae by the NBTHK which produced a catalog called Uchigatana (no) Koshirae. This illustrates items from Daimyo level koshirae to arsenal type swords. Interestingly many of the older Daimyo koshirae have previously used tsuba. 

[zanilu]

22 hours ago, Mantis dude said:

Looking for information for myself I seem to be coming across other info.  Following is from Christie's Compton catalog pg 232.  This might give you some place to start for more information. 

 

For what its worth for the discussion as far as Yoshiro tsuba go I have never found a correspondence between the mon on the tsuba and actual family kamon.

 

They are more mon-like decorations.

 

Regards

Luca

[Cornelius]

I must admit that the discussion has become extremely interesting. Thank you all very much!
Can you please tell me where Mr. Fred Weissberg's article was originally published?
I will make time to read the article today. It promises to be very interesting.
I also read something very interesting in Okabe-Kakuya. He says: "It is related that once Taiko-Hideyoshi, the Japanese Napoleon, saw the swords of his generals lying on a rack in the antechamber of his palace, and so expressive was their individuality that he at once recognized to whom each belonged.".
It would be assumed that the generals' swords were in scabbards. In this situation, what gave each sword its individuality and linked it to its owner were the tsuka and tsuba.

[Toryu2020]

Published in the newsletter of the Northern California Japanese Sword Club - Fred owns the sword in question and commissioned all the translations accordingly...

 

-t

[Tim Evans]

14 hours ago, Cornelius said:

I also read something very interesting in Okabe-Kakuya. He says: "It is related that once Taiko-Hideyoshi, the Japanese Napoleon, saw the swords of his generals lying on a rack in the antechamber of his palace, and so expressive was their individuality that he at once recognized to whom each belonged.".
It would be assumed that the generals' swords were in scabbards. In this situation, what gave each sword its individuality and linked it to its owner were the tsuka and tsuba.

The Taiko, Toyotomi Hideyoshi ruled during the Momoyama period, which was known for the gorgeous personal koshirae of the Daimyo. The koshirae of the Daimyo who were the direct vassals of Hideyoshi still exist, and the lacquer on the saya often used a lot of gold leaf, gold lacquer, red lacquer, etc. The formal court koshirae (kami-shimo-zashi) with plain black lacquered saya was a regulation of the the later Tokugawa Shogunate. 

 

 

 

[Cornelius]

11 hours ago, Toryu2020 said:

Published in the newsletter of the Northern California Japanese Sword Club - Fred owns the sword in question and commissioned all the translations accordingly...

 

-t

 A particularly interesting article, written with great talent! Thank you!

[Cornelius]

8 hours ago, Tim Evans said:

The Taiko, Toyotomi Hideyoshi ruled during the Momoyama period, which was known for the gorgeous personal koshirae of the Daimyo. The koshirae of the Daimyo who were the direct vassals of Hideyoshi still exist, and the lacquer on the saya often used a lot of gold leaf, gold lacquer, red lacquer, etc. The formal court koshirae (kami-shimo-zashi) with plain black lacquered saya was a regulation of the the later Tokugawa Shogunate. 

 

 

 

It must be a great privilege to be able to touch such beauties!

[DoTanuki yokai]

https://markussesko.com/2022/07/08/oda-samonji/ 

it’s only a small but informative part in regard to your question .