A Chinese good copy?

[Bruno]

Hi everyone,

 

Please have a look to this "gendaito" from a Chinese Ebay seller. Probably a copy but if so they are starting to produce better repro than we are used to see. No mount, mumei sounds weird to me.

 

BTW, I am interested in buying it, just curious to read your opinions about it.

 

Any comments?

 

Thanks

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/auth-beautiful-japa ... 4839509bc9

[Roger Wildcat]

Noted that there is no rust on the tang. I wouldn't buy any item from anyone trying to pass it off as the real deal.

[Stephen]

looking at his past sales, the smith is getting the Kissaki closer than this one.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0195500153

[Bruno]

One of his feedback(only one):

 

"gendaito is a fake - beware of this thief - selling chinese copies as jap swords"

[Grey Doffin]

Close but no cigar. It's a fake. Why would you want to buy this, Bruno?

Grey

[estcrh]

Hi everyone,

 

Please have a look to this "gendaito" from a Chinese Ebay seller. Probably a copy but if so they are starting to produce better repro than we are used to see. No mount, mumei sounds weird to me.

 

BTW, I am interested in buying it, just curious to read your opinions about it.

 

Any comments?

 

Thanks

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/auth-beautiful-japa ... 4839509bc9

If you look close you will see a...damascus... pattern in the hamon...a sure sign of a chinese fake. Maybe some sort of chemical treatment ...acid?...to get an artificial temper. I have only seen one seller in China who carries anything but fakes, and this one guy buys from yahoo Japan and resells, other than that I have one authentic antique come from china let alone a sword, and the junk always looks better in a picture than in your hand. I know, I one bought a Chinese fake, from an American no less, he got burned and he passed it on to me. Taught me a valuable lesson.

[Stephen]

if anyone thought it true gendait well thats too bad for them, but at that price and if you dont mind spending the money dont think theres anything wrong with buying it...esp if you want to use it for iado...or just to compair, which i think was Brunos point of buying it.

[doug e lewis]

is not there a more dependable, better known, and made sword for iato, made by a smith who is known and respected in the iato world. Paul Chen comes to mind, and i am sure there others.

 

something like this, especially with the comments by past customers, seem not to be worth the chance -- no matter how good a deal it seems to be. Remember:

 

"the bitterness of poor quality remains

long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"

 

just MHO

 

doug e

[Lee Bray]

There are several 'good' smiths in China.

Funnily enough, most I know are called Chen.

Paul Chen of Hanwei/CAS Iberia, Fred Chen of Huano Swords(?) and Rich Chen(posts over on Don Fogg's site)

Rich Chen smelts his own steel from black iron sand.

 

There are good swords being made in China, not just the crappy Chinatana.

This looks to be a good one but no guarantees. The hamon does look acid etched as it very dull and lifeless.

 

Unfortunately, whilst being a worldwide phenomenon, Chinese sellers continue to flood the market with fakes thereby undermining their own market.

As ebay is such a crap shoot anyway, I'd recommend buying direct from the smiths authorized dealer. Their prices are competitive and it is really not worth the risk going through ebay for a Chinese sword.

[Grey Doffin]

Something like this would be OK for iado, I guess, but if any of you are looking for a blade to use in tameshigiri (cutting) be very careful who you buy from. A friend had a Chinese blade snap in half during a cut. The loose half came flying back at him and cut him badly.

Grey

[doug e lewis]

now that is a "bitter" result of placing getting a "deal" over quality from, as you say, a smith with a good reputation. especially if cutting is your purpose, and not just learning to draw a sword properly.

 

and spilling your blood on the dojo floor will not be appreciated by your sensei!

 

did not know of so many Chen out there making swords. it is a shame, with so many good smiths working in China, that the China junk tanishes the rep of the good. would not buy anything nihonto related out of China because you ust don't know who to trust.

 

doug e

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

A friend had a Chinese blade snap in half during a cut.

 

Not to promote chinese blades but you can have the same thing with a Japanese sword, that depends of your practical skill and your training.

[doug e lewis]

IMHO --of course a person could have a sword brake no matter what sword they are using --- this is obvious, but since i am a newbie i'll say it anyway ---

it depends on the skill of the smith forging the sword, also.

 

as the senior members know, the ichikizu swords of the late Sengoku broken with regularity. even Masamune's swords probably broke sometimes [splitting one too many kabuto, maybe]

 

one reason for the dearth of Koto swords?? rust, fire, re-cycling by shortening into another weapon, and melting down to make giant Buddhas.

 

 

doug e

[Bruno]

Probably a better sword than what we are used to see fom China, but selling it as a gendaito is not really fair.

[Roger Wildcat]

Bruno, if you are interested in how much progress has been made in the quality of the swords then you should go to http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com for your research. The owner of that website reviews both european and Japanese sword. I personally like some of the european sword he reviews.

 

He also pimp his own line of chinese-made Katanas that is produced with T-10 tool steel which is also differentially hardened. There is a video posted on his website in which he commits extreme sword abuse to prove how durable his blades is. Crazy guy, he is.

[Bruno]

Personnaly every katana from China have no interest ot close to, whatever some are of better quality than others. I just would like to show that repros are getting better.

[Lee Bray]

BTW, I am interested in buying it, just curious to read your opinions about it.

 

Personnaly every katana from China have no interest ot close to,

 

Sorry, you said you were interested in buying it which is why I wrote my post.

[estcrh]

BTW, I am interested in buying it, just curious to read your opinions about it.

 

Personnaly every katana from China have no interest ot close to,

 

Sorry, you said you were interested in buying it which is why I wrote my post.

As long as the seller does not say...antique...vintage.etc..I am ok with it. but when there is an attempt to deceive........then I have a problem with the Chinese replicas. No one should knowingly buy from a seller who is misrepresenting what they sell!!!!

[Bruno]

HOOP!!!! Sorry guys!

 

I meant "I am NOT interested in buying it, just curious to read your opinions about it."

 

Not interested at all in buying it, of course!!!! :D

 

Thanks for your comments.

[sanjuro]

Rule of thumb for Nihontophiles to live by:

 

There aint no such thing as a 'good' Chinese copy of anything.

[doug e lewis]

well, i guess that kills our detante with China! Hope they don't decide to redeem all their US Treasury bonds fecause of our dissing their faux nihonto industry.

 

doug e

[Lee Bray]

Bruno - no problem. I wondered if it was a language problem and it was.

[sanjuro]

Doug.

 

Yeah, so much for international relations..... Most of the better class Chinese blades are probably made from steel smelted from Australian iron ore. (And here comes the gratuitous pun)...... Hows that for irony? ....... I could be in trouble from my own government for my previous remark.

[doug e lewis]

Ah, that good Australian iron ore. no wonder their fakes are looking better.

 

i understand that Victoriia has passed some pretty draconian anti-sword laws. with little difference made for antiques and their collectors. you there, or are you in Syndey. Or better yet, Perth, so you can take lunch with Rich Turner :D

 

well, back to blades and all thing nihonto or Japanese related.

 

doug e

[Stephen]

im thinking the sword was made in Nippon. Maybe Osaka

[Amon]

Sorry Steve but I don't think Osaka, I think it still are very Chinese.

There are some swordmakers in China and Thailand which have

blades like this, more advanced also.

Just look at Kotetsu sword from Thailand and http://www.red-dragonfly-sword.com

Certainly more well made than this but still not Japanese...

 

Best regards,

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Beware. They're getting skilled. Following Clive's article I stumpled into this one on a very good forgery caught at a shinsa. I ask myself who has taught them :

 

http://www.to-ken.com/articles/Kannori.htm

[Stephen]

well my last post was a bit tongue in cheek, this is a response from the seller, fishing for info on the blade. He does have some items im sure he bought in Japan, and many that are cast repo's....here's what he said.

 

"Hi,Dear sir,This sword is made by Japanese swordsmith in Osaka,I can put samekawa and sword in one package"

[sanjuro]

Maybe I'm just a natural skeptic, but in reviewing the photos of this blade, there is still that curious marbled damascus look about the hada in some of the pictures. Now why would a Japanese smith produce what is a foreign effect on a Japanese blade, an effect that usually identifies Chinese blades as fakes, when he was trying to produce a sword that was a genuine shinsakuto?

 

'Made by a Japanese smith in Osaka' rolls easily off the tongue. You can make that claim about any Chinese fake if you are trying to pass it off as the real deal. I'd like to see the Japanese export papers on this one before I was convinced.

[estcrh]

Beware. They're getting skilled. Following Clive's article I stumpled into this one on a very good forgery caught at a shinsa. I ask myself who has taught them :

 

http://www.to-ken.com/articles/Kannori.htm

This site in China claims that they use Tamahagane in their blades, has anyone heard of them? http://www.zu-ben.com/zuben/swordsmith.htm