Type 95 NCO Sword??

[NOTaCOP]

I know nothing about swords but acquired this recently and through some talkings with various people I'm still unknown as to the validity of this sword. From what I've read online it's not a reproduction but I've had others tell me certain things do not add up. The blade is in poor condition because from what it seems someone had tried to sharpen it. The blade is sharp but it has left obvious damage to the sides. 

Any information is truly appreciated. 

There is also a matching number to the blade on the base of the scabbard I just do not have the sword readily available to take the photo. Will add later if needed.

[robinalexander]

Hi Joseph,

 

This sword came up very recently on FB.

 

have a look at this thread.......

 

Copper handle NCO or fake? https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/51707-copper-handle-nco-or-fake/

 

Ask away.

[Bruce Pennington]

Joseph,

I understand the mixed signals you are getting on this one, as many things about it seem legit, yet just as many are off.  Maybe you can describe the different colors of the tsuka (handle) from one side to the other?  Can you post a shot of the back edge of the tsuka showing the transition of the two colors?  The side showing the stamps seems to be realistic copper color, where the other side appears brass.

 

Here are some observations of the things that are off:

 

1.  The dimples in the diamond areas should be distinct, whereas those on your sword are almost not visible.

2.  The center inspector stamp on yours seems to be a "Na" of Nagoya, where it should be a "To" of Tokyo.  Plus the left stamp, Suya, is close but not accurate.

 

3.  Copper handles had the imitation wrap on the stamped side, but not of the other side, where yours shows the wrap going all the way around the base of the handle.

 

The drag

1. It is a fine distinction, but the curvature of your drag is a bit flat for a Tokyo drag

2. The end of the scabbard is rough, and too curved for a Tokyo

3.  The dip in the long edge of the drag is almost not there, compared to a Tokyo edge.

 

The bohi (fuller groove)

Hard to see in your photos, but it appears the end of the groove is rounded/tapered.  Tokyo bohi end in a point that mirrors the shape of the actual blade tip.

 

All said, I thing this is likely a really well done reproduction.  But still curious about the two colors of the handle and how they transition on the edges.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Just noticed this:

 

The brown paint/coating had come off in two places, so it's not copper but a paint.

 

I contemplated that it was a Nagoya sword, but with all the other issues, not to mention that I'm pretty sure Suya Shoten never made blades for Nagoya, I don't think it was a Nagoya.

[Scogg]

Hi Joseph, 

I am the person who commented on your facebook post asking about the tsuka. And I am sorry for implying the sale might be a scam in the other thread that is linked above! I see now that you are an inquisitive owner of the item looking for information - and not trying to do anything nefarious. I'll edit my post on that other thread with a strikethrough to reflect my misunderstanding. 

Bruce makes really good observations that also gave me pause. I think a new set of photographs, including what Bruce requested, and of the tip of the blade, will help determine what we are seeing. Can we also see the spine of the sword, and the entrance to the scabbard? 

Anywhere there is wear-and-tear on the handle, does the metal look "silver/grey" or does it look "Brassy"? 

Cheers,
-Sam

[robinalexander]

20 hours ago, NOTaCOP said:

There is also a matching number to the blade on the base of the scabbard I just do not have the sword readily available to take the photo. Will add later if needed.

Hello Joseph, 

 

Putting the Incorrect drag aside for a moment, if the 'matching' number on the saya is the same as the blade then the saya is definitely not for a copper 95.  Same as the blade number = not from a early copper 95.

 

In regard to Bruce's question @Bruce Pennington ......." But still curious about the two colors of the handle and how they transition on the edges."  I note you have answered that in your comment to Sam on FB (shown below) in regard to the different colours of the Tsuka ......

 

Joseph [surname deleted]

Sam [surname deleted] it's the same handle. One side just seems as if it had been left open to the sun or something for an extended period of time.

 

A copper Tsuka is not going to react like that, in the sun, or in the weather for that matter.  So IMO Tsuka is not genuine.

 

Its an interesting one alright and even though I have made up my mind (in the negative) I would still look forward to more pictures when the sword is available to you.

Rob

 

 

[Kiipu]

Time is short today but it is a known reproduction.  Ran into them some five years ago.

[drb 1643]

7 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Time is short today but it is a known reproduction.  Ran into them some five years ago.

I agree, it’s a repro.

[Kiipu]

Joseph, attached are pictures of serial number 13732 made by Suya.  This is in the same serial number range as yours.  Note the subtle differences between them.