How to value/rank Showato?

[George KN]

Hi all, against all odds the tax man has actually reimbursed me some funds instead of take them away, and I'm now on the hunt for a new blade. I have my eye on some, but it's hard to choose between them! 

 

I know that signed gendai or older nihonto in military fittings are the dream, but I'm not sure how other things rank in rarity/value.

 

In what order of value (not necessary monetary) would you consider the following (currently not in any particular order)?:

 

1. Mumei gunto, possibly gendaito, not older, no stamps, silvered habaki, with field grade tassel, in army fittings
2. HIDENOBU gunto, tachi mei + date, small "Na" Nagoya arsenal stamp (unsure if this 100% makes it a showato?), silvered habaki, in army fittings

3. YOSHIMITSU gunto, tachi mei + date, possibly no stamps, with company grade tassel, silvered habaki, in army fittings
4. Signed Kaigunto, tachi mei + date, seki stamp, in kaigunto fittings (but missing any ashi on the saya)
5. KAZUNORI civilian gunto, katana mei + date, seki stamp, in civilian fittings, but with civilian brown tassel

Known smith details (not sure any of them made gendaito or not though - kind of assuming all three blades must be non traditional?):

HIDENOBU (秀宣), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Hidenobu” (秀宣), real name Noguchi Satarō (野口佐太郎), born October 16th 1910, he worked as a guntō smith
KAZUNORI (一則), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Kazunori” (一則), real name Kanematsu Kazuichi (兼松一市), born June 10th 1894, he worked as guntō smith and died December 9th 1944, posthumous Buddhist name Zendō Myōtoku (善導妙徳)
YOSHIMITSU (義光), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Yoshimitsu” (義光), real name Yabushita Fujio (藪下不二夫), he was a Seki-based guntō smith

 

Pretty sure I've got these three translations right as I confirmed them here: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/51632-confirming-my-translations-i

Personally I'm currently thinking:

1. YOSHIMITSU gunto - without a stamp it could be a gendaito, and has a tassel. Complete package, limited risk
2. Signed Kaigunto - seki stamp means it isn't a gendaito, but kaigunto are fairly rare and I don't own one yet
3. HIDENOBU gunto - Assuming the na stamp means it is showato, I'm torn between this one and the mumei being next, but I feel the mumei is more of a risk
4. Mumei gunto - rarer field grade tassel. Could be a gendaito, but unsure how I could prove it
5. KAZUNORI civilian gunto - unsure of the rarity of civilian tassels, but it does have the seki stamp, so definitely not gendaito
 

I am working on getting better pictures, especially of the kaigunto so I can make a better decision - but just assume I won't get them

 

So just as a thought experiment more than anything else, which order would you choose?

 

Thanks, and hope you're having a good day,

 George

 

[Navy]

Having one, check carefully the Yoshimitsu. Mine was issued with a torokusho but, while being a nice blade, once had a Seki stamp that has been erased, probably in order to pass the Japanese laws on non-traditional made swords.

[George KN]

Thanks for the warning Marzio! Looks like a nice blade though

 

Given the terrible pictures I have, I am thinking the Yoshimitsu I'm considering has a high chance of having a stamp somewhere I can't see. Not even sure if he ever made gendaito, and I don't actually know where to check (I have limited books)

 

The thing is, I'm fine with buying a showato if that's what happens - I actually don't have one yet - I just don't know how I should choose between different showato smiths if everything else is equal? 

 

[Navy]

Personally, I would make my choose evaluating the overall condition of the sword: better a good, healty showato with quality koshirae than a (maybe) gendaito out of polish and with  battered fittings...

Unless you find a very appreciated swordsmith, worthing the expensive polish of the blade, but it appears not to be the case.

If you can provide some pics of the "candidates", it will be easy to judicate.

[George KN]

Unfortunately still waiting on decent photos... But will share when I get them

And interesting - your point about condition and the cost of polish and repair is definitely one I'm going to think over!

 

What about the other factors though, if they were all in an equally good condition? Would you rather a gunto in civilian fittings with a tassel to one in military one without a tassel? Would you rather a kaigunto over a shingunto? 

[John C]

27 minutes ago, George KN said:

What about the other factors though,

 

George: Have you seen this kai gunto in the For Sale forum? Kai gunto from Takayama forge by @Swords

 

 

[Scogg]

Hi George,

 

There is a wartime list that ranks swordsmiths; although condition, length, originality and other factors are also big market drivers. 

https://www.japaneseswordindex.com/tosho.htm

 

Ray Singer recently had a nice probably Koto, Mumei mino blade in gunto mounts that might still be available if you message him. Nice length and active hamon. 
 

Otherwise your question is tough to answer, as so much comes down to personal preference. Personally I’d pick anything traditionally made first. If you want a showato, I’d maybe picked one made by a ranked smith for the paper trail. 
 

When I shop for swords, usually one will “speak to me”, so to say. So my advice is to keep looking until you feel that spark.

 
Best of luck! 
I wish I were shopping for a sword right now 

-Sam 

 

 

[George KN]

Thanks Sam for that list, that's a big help! Unfortunately doesn't have any of the smiths I've identified on, which probably isn't a great sign.

And that's a really nice blade John! I'm surprised nobody has snatched it up yet. Genuinely looks in really nice mint condition.

 

The only problem is I'm UK based, and I don't really want to run the risk of our ridiculous customs. I'm also not talking about a lot of money here 😅 - you guys should know by now I prefer liberating blades at bargain prices. Well, that's the idea at least... 

[Scogg]

Woops, I forgot you’re in the UK. That complicates things, and I don’t blame you one bit.

 

Based on your descriptions, and without diving into each individual smith, I think your 1-5 list sounds reasonable. 
 

You can always try the wanted to buy section too. You never know what’s out there!  
All the best,

-Sam 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

It depends on what direction you would like to go with collecting. If you are happy with military swords, then Showato in good condition offer a wide range of options in blade and mounts. You will likely gain more satisfaction from a Gendaito or Nihonto in the long term, and they will also represent the best military swords you can find.

For what it's worth, the exercise is rather difficult without at least a picture of each sword to judge condition.

[Bruce Pennington]

All five, as listed, seem to fall into the same 'class' of swords assuming they are all equally in the same condition.  So, like said already, photos would be necessary for us to pick,  Kaigunto, in general, are more "pretty" than army gunto, and more expensive, but the missing ashi takes it down a notch or two.  Field grade tassels cost much more, around $500 USD, so that's a plus.

 

As stated already, it would have to be a "what does my gut say?" approach.

[George KN]

Thanks for the continued advice! In the end, using the mixed pictures I had available from the auction, I put bids on all of them, at levels I felt comfortable given the different amounts of risk involved with each one. So not quite a gut feeling, nor really waiting for one to speak to me, more like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what stuck 

 

The other people in the auction must have been bigger fans of shin gunto, or perhaps there's something terribly wrong with it I can't see in the pictures, but the only one I successfully bought was the Kai Gunto, at considerably less than I'd bid on the Yoshimitsu! 






Although it's going to take me a week or two to get the blade home, I've also already ordered some ashi from ebay, at about 1/4 of the price I paid for the entire thing. Parts aren't cheap are they? I can live without a sarute, as I understand these were sometimes cloth/rope, but I'm not so sure about the chuso clip. Is there a navy specific one I should be trying to find as a replacement, or are they the same as the standard shin gunto ones? 

 

And got to love small auction houses though. When I asked if there were any cracks or damage to the blade, they replied in an email that there was a "Small nibble to blade" - which is not something I've heard before whilst collecting lol. They also sent this wonderfully detailed photo of said nibble:

 



I'm just hoping there isn't a hagire hiding somewhere :S 

[George KN]

Ok, I'm home now, and finally been able to take a proper look at the kai gunto. No hagire I think, but it's definitely out of polish... 

Jan was kind enough to provide me with the translations for the mei here: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/51770-kai-gunto-mei
 

濃州関住正行作 = Nōshū Seki-jū Masayuki saku

昭和十八年 = Shōwa 18 (1943 CE)
 

Although missing it's ashi and mekugi peg, all the other fittings have the same 1,1,5,3 numbers, which leads me to believe these are also the numbers painted in brown on the nakago (please correct me if I'm wrong though):

 

The saya liner is numbered 1153 inside, and the tsuka has it written on it too:

 

Both the tsuba and the large kai gunto seppa are also numbered with the roman numerals (yes, they are upside down, but the numbers are this way up for some reason):

 

 

The habaki is also numbered, but using scratches instead:

 

 

It all feels genuine, but the casting bubbles are fairly obvious on the tsuba, and even the inside of the habaki again looks cast. And considering the 1943 date, I'm guessing this is an example of the decline in the quality of production due to resource shortages. 

 

Out of interest, does anyone know what the highest numbered kai gunto is?


 

[George KN]

Apart from the missing ashi (which will be a pain to replace since they are the kind that need screws), the other two big issues with it is the saya skin is splitting along its entire length (hopefully this may be fixable?):

 

 

 

And that the blade is very out of polish:
 

 

Thankfully it's all surface rust as far as I can tell, but it is a pain the auction wasn't able to show this all in more detail *before* I bought the darned thing. Now I know why it was so cheap for a kai gunto!

 

 

On 3/6/2025 at 7:46 PM, Navy said:

Personally, I would make my choose evaluating the overall condition of the sword: better a good, healty showato with quality koshirae than a (maybe) gendaito out of polish and with  battered fittings...

Unless you find a very appreciated swordsmith, worthing the expensive polish of the blade, but it appears not to be the case.

I think I may have instead ended up with a battered showato in battered fittings instead of listening to this sound advice 

Oh well - hopefully I'll be able to at least stabilise the rust with oil and uchiko.
 

On the bright side, it is nice to finally be able to hold and study a kai gunto, as well as a showato for the first time 

[Bruce Pennington]

49 minutes ago, George KN said:

The habaki is also numbered, but using scratches instead

The hash marks are a modified Roman numeral system. You can see two single strikes at the top for the one, one, and the five strikes on one side and the three strikes on the other. So the number matches the rest of the fittings.

 

That’s a nice sword, with a really nice hamon.  It’ll be fun chasing around to find the missing parts. But it’s worth the effort.

[George KN]

Thanks Bruce

Unlike that time I bought a gunto without seeing a tang and it turning out to be an Emura, this one is much less of a home run, but I'm learning a lot all the same.

 

If anyone has a pair of kai gunto ashi that have holes for screws they're willing to sell or trade for ones without a hole, please pm me! (I will make an ad in the wanted section for this too)