What's in a name? Wakizashi/naginata/naginata-naoshi

[Natichu]

Good evening all, 

 

In continuing my reading and review of the usual sites we all undoubtedly frequent, I came across this piece on Aoi that raised a lot of questions in my mind relating to how the NBTHK categorizes things:

 

https://www.aoijapan...th-nbthk-juyo-token/

 

Photo of the origami and juyo setsumei attached as well. 

 

So, as one can see the blade is currently in wakizashi koshirae. However, it has been categorized as a naginata, not a naginata-naoshi. If my Japanese is correct, the juyo setsumei indicates that the nakago is ubu, but also that it is cut down ("生ぶ、先を切り詰める"). The original mei remains. The kissaki has a kaeri and so as far as I understand it hasn't been reshaped. 

 

Questions I have for the members of the forum:

 

1) As this is now in wakizashi koshirae, with nakago modified to make that happen, why is this not a naginata-naoshi? Is this because the kissaki hasn't been reshaped? 

 

2) What makes a nakago ubu? In this case, it has been cut down, and so it isn't unaltered. But I assume it hasn't been moved up the blade (though I've also seen blades with machiokuri listed as ubu). 

 

I appreciate all of this likely is me simply trying to be a bit more fixed in categories than is helpful. But the blade, fittings, and paperwork just stuck in my brain in odd ways, and thought it might make a good set of learning points for me. 

 

Any insight anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated! 

[Geraint]

Dear Nathaniel.

 

With regard to your specific question regarding NBTHK classification I am unable to help you but simply from an observation of the blade I would suggest that this sugata was originally made just as it now is.  To describe it as 'naginata naoshi' is to say that it has the form of such a blade, not to describe its history.

 

All the best.

[Rivkin]

I am probably the worst person to comment on the nomenclature since I have very little interest in it, but there is an inflexion of blade and koshirae classification.

It is mounted as wakizashi so as it is, it is wakizashi. The blade itself in shirasaya I would simply call naginata and calling it wakizashi would be unusual.

In a sense it is how the blade is supposed to be used as a weapon that affects the proper name. 

 

I would expect someone to be more knowledgeable on this, but I've seen a number of tachi where essentially only the final portion was somewhat reworked-shortened being called "ubu".

I' suspect that as long as nakago retains the full signature and 95% of its original length it is in koto case can be referred to as ubu. 

[Jacques]

As Juyo zufu says this sword is an ubu wakizashi. 

[sabiji]

Yes, the Kissaki has been reshaped! You can actually see that the mune slopes down towards the Ha. It also says in the origami that the moto saki has been “cut”.

[Lewis B]

1 hour ago, sabiji said:

Yes, the Kissaki has been reshaped! You can actually see that the mune slopes down towards the Ha. It also says in the origami that the moto saki has been “cut”.

Yes, indeed. Likely accounts for the fairly low starting price. I bet many would not notice.

[Natichu]

Many thanks all. Clearly I have a lot of learning to do, but this is an interesting starting point as I have a strong interest in naginata and naginata-naoshi. 

 

@Jacques, are you able to provide any snippets of the zufu where this is listed as a wakizashi? Would that be a bit of a rarity for it to be listed differently than in the origami? I've never had the chance to see the zufu before (unless the page I've added above is from those books, in which case my apologies for misunderstanding!). 

[sabiji]

Nathaniel,

in the Juyo Nado Zufu, ultimately only the Oshigata and the Setsumei are depicted, i.e. what you (or Tsuruta-San) are depicting here. And in the Setsumei it says Naginata, and the Mei has been cut off in the date. Of course, the setsumei also states that the saki has been cut.

 

Perhaps Jaques has another Zufu...

[Natichu]

2 hours ago, sabiji said:

Yes, the Kissaki has been reshaped! You can actually see that the mune slopes down towards the Ha. It also says in the origami that the moto saki has been “cut”.

Even more interesting that both the nakago and kissaki have been reshaped (presumably to facilitate use as a wakizashi) and yet it still remains a naginata sans naoshi, as it were. Many thanks to you and @Geraint for shining some light on this! 

[Lewis B]

This is my translation of the Zufu. Blade is described as Naginata. Don't see any mention of ubu

 

Japanese swords

 

Designated on August 10, 1967

 

16th Important Sword

 

Tokyo Ujino Kanki

 

Naginata, inscription: Bizen Province Ukanju Kumoju Sadaharu (hereafter "kiri").

 

Ichiro

 

Sujigai, one mekugi-ana, long inscription on a fine chisel near the ridge, Sadaharu's handwritten inscription below, the year is probably 22-no-4.

 

Small round on the back and sweeping on the back. Carvings: Naginata-hi with a groove. Round stop. Base born, tip cut short. Tip chestnut. Large file marks

 

Shape: Kanmuri-rakuzo, Iori-mune, head not too bulging, small, shallow curvature.

 

Length 40.0 cm, 0.8 cm, width at base 2.6, tang length 12.6 cm, slight tang

 

Hamon medium straight blade, small irregularity, mixed with alternating lines, shallowly curved upper half, sand flow, gold lines, small boiling. Hat surface

 

Forging The grain is mixed with moku, and the surface has a strong ji boiling.

 

The scarcity is probably due to the slightly dried out fukura. It has been changed to sho. Unju is a swordsmith of the same school who took over the succession of Unsho Unju, and there are few surviving swords with signatures, but this

 

naginata is valuable because it is inscribed with the date of Joji 4. Although it is slender, it has a powerful appearance compared to those from the Kamakura period.

 

Description It is made by Unju of the Bizen Ukai school, and the fact that it is marked "Ukanju" is also helpful. In other words, what was once Ugansho was later Ukai

[SteveM]

I don't think the kissaki was reshaped. I think its the original kanmuri-otoshi style. The origami doesn't mention any reshaping of the kissaki. In the section under the heading "nakago", it notes that the butt-end of the tang was cut off and is now "kuri-jiri" style. I don't think this sword would be designated Juyo if the kissaki were altered. 

 

It is still called "ubu" because the machi have not been significantly altered. 

 

I'd just note to Nathaniel not to expect consistency in sword or tosogu terminology, especially with these earlier papers. It's maddening, but one learns to live these oddities.

 

[SteveM]

Come on guys. Lift yer game. 

 

[sabiji]

...and where did I translate something wrong?

[Jacques]

5 hours ago, sabiji said:

Yes, the Kissaki has been reshaped! You can actually see that the mune slopes down towards the Ha. It also says in the origami that the moto saki has been “cut”.

No the kissaki is ubu (kaeri)

[Natichu]

2 hours ago, SteveM said:

... 

I'd just note to Nathaniel not to expect consistency in sword or tosogu terminology, especially with these earlier papers. It's maddening, but one learns to live these oddities.

 

Thank you for the reminder on that point. It seems like one needs to simply get used to "the vibe of the thing" (for those that have watched The Castle), and take a blade on its own terms, rather than worrying too much about the words attached. 

[Natichu]

Just now, Jacques said:

No the kissaki is ubu (kaeri)

That was certainly my impression! I didn't see anything about the kissaki being reshaped in the setsumei, but I don't think my Japanese is up to the task one way or the other. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

As it is dated it is extremely rare item. I did a presentation on Kamakura & Nanbokuchō naginata few years ago. Back then I had found 38 dated Kamakura & Nanbokuchō naginata & naoshi. Now I assume I have found few more since then but I think the number still remains under 50 in total.

 

There are actually many old naginata that are around 40 - 50 cm in blade length. It is perfectly legitimate length and I personally own one dated Nanbokuchō naginata in this length range. However this is not my preferred size and shape range. And for Aoi Art blade the fact that the nakago has been cut makes this particular piece not that desirable for myself. Naginata in general are not really appreciated in traditional Japanese collecting/appreciation lore, which will explain the lower price they usually go for. As Steve said earlier NBTHK terminology has changed over the years. As the nakago has been cut so severely I personally would see this more as naoshi than a naginata even though the blade portion would be unaltered. For example I own another Nanbokuchō naginata that I believe to be suriage, the current blade length is 49,4 cm but the nakago is still 42,5 cm, so the sword still remains as a naginata. I just checked old naginata that I have data for and I have quite a lot of them. I found only 3 Kamakura & Nanbokuchō naginata with nakago under 20 cm, they were all NBTHK Jūyō and originally with much longer nakago (personally I would question if they are still naginata with such a short tang). Also found 2 early Edo naginata with similarily short nakago.

 

 

Here you can see another Naginata (this one is naoshi) by Unjū that is made around the same time. This one is much larger and appealing to me a lot more personally. By somewhat funny coincidence it was also sold by Aoi almost 15 years ago. https://web.archive.org/web/20110408142928/http:/www.aoi-art.com:80/sword/sale/10599.html

 

One thing that I can try to figure out by looking at these two very differently sized naginata (they are only signed naginata by Unjū I have seen so far), is the fact that it seems Unjū started his signature on naginata very high up on the tang. So in case of shortening the tang lot of the mei can still be preserved.

[SteveM]

2 hours ago, sabiji said:

...and where did I translate something wrong?

 

My second post was a response to this line (not yours):

 

2 hours ago, Lewis B said:

Don't see any mention of ubu

 

The first word under the character for nakago (茎) is "ubu" (生ぶ). The bits following that refer to the end of the nakago. 

[Natichu]

12 hours ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

As it is dated it is extremely rare item. I did a presentation on Kamakura & Nanbokuchō naginata few years ago. Back then I had found 38 dated Kamakura & Nanbokuchō naginata & naoshi. Now I assume I have found few more since then but I think the number still remains under 50 in total.

 

There are actually many old naginata that are around 40 - 50 cm in blade length. It is perfectly legitimate length and I personally own one dated Nanbokuchō naginata in this length range. However this is not my preferred size and shape range. And for Aoi Art blade the fact that the nakago has been cut makes this particular piece not that desirable for myself. Naginata in general are not really appreciated in traditional Japanese collecting/appreciation lore, which will explain the lower price they usually go for. As Steve said earlier NBTHK terminology has changed over the years. As the nakago has been cut so severely I personally would see this more as naoshi than a naginata even though the blade portion would be unaltered. For example I own another Nanbokuchō naginata that I believe to be suriage, the current blade length is 49,4 cm but the nakago is still 42,5 cm, so the sword still remains as a naginata. I just checked old naginata that I have data for and I have quite a lot of them. I found only 3 Kamakura & Nanbokuchō naginata with nakago under 20 cm, they were all NBTHK Jūyō and originally with much longer nakago (personally I would question if they are still naginata with such a short tang). Also found 2 early Edo naginata with similarily short nakago.

 

 

Here you can see another Naginata (this one is naoshi) by Unjū that is made around the same time. This one is much larger and appealing to me a lot more personally. By somewhat funny coincidence it was also sold by Aoi almost 15 years ago. https://web.archive.org/web/20110408142928/http:/www.aoi-art.com:80/sword/sale/10599.html

 

One thing that I can try to figure out by looking at these two very differently sized naginata (they are only signed naginata by Unjū I have seen so far), is the fact that it seems Unjū started his signature on naginata very high up on the tang. So in case of shortening the tang lot of the mei can still be preserved.

Many thanks for the insight @Jussi Ekholm, I'll have to pick your brain at some point on the naginata front as at some point I'd like to pick one up! I'd have to agree, with such a short nakago it doesn't seem likely they'd still be viable as a polearm. Good to know that the terminology shifts, and it isn't a precise science as it were. 

[sabiji]

16 hours ago, SteveM said:

Ich glaube nicht, dass das Kissaki umgestaltet wurde. Ich glaube, es ist der ursprüngliche Kanmuri-Otoshi-Stil. Das Origami erwähnt keine Umgestaltung des Kissaki. Im Abschnitt unter der Überschrift „Nakago“ wird vermerkt, dass das Ende der Angel abgeschnitten wurde und nun im „Kuri-Jiri“-Stil ist. Ich glaube nicht, dass dieses Schwert als Juyo bezeichnet würde, wenn das Kissaki verändert worden wäre. 

My mistake! There is nothing in the text about changing the tip. Nevertheless, I am of the opinion that some material is missing from the Kissaki.

Under the “ubu” it is noted that the (nakago) tip has been cut off and is kurijiri.

So ubu and suriage? It will be a point that I will make a note of and ask about in Japan in the fall.

[Bugyotsuji]

There is an explanation as to the difference between 'suriage' and nakago wo 'kiritsumeru' here, but I still don't quite understand what they are saying.(?)

From https://www.touken-collection-nagoya.jp/nihonto-basic-knowledge/

Last paragraph of 2-1-2

茎の刃側の先端を「茎先」（なかごさき）、刀身の先端を「茎尻」（なかごじり）と呼び、茎尻は「磨上げ」が行われる際に削られる部分でもあります。また茎を切り詰めるのは、鋒／切先を削ってしまうと「帽子」がなくなり、刀剣が脆く折れやすくなってしまうため。、刀工が作ったままの姿の茎を「生ぶ茎」（うぶなかご）、一方磨上げられた刀剣の茎は「磨上げ茎」と言います。

[Mikaveli]

4 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

There is an explanation as to the difference between 'suriage' and nakago wo 'kiritsumeru' here, but I still don't quite understand what they are saying.(?)

From https://www.touken-collection-nagoya.jp/nihonto-basic-knowledge/

Last paragraph of 2-1-2

茎の刃側の先端を「茎先」（なかごさき）、刀身の先端を「茎尻」（なかごじり）と呼び、茎尻は「磨上げ」が行われる際に削られる部分でもあります。また茎を切り詰めるのは、鋒／切先を削ってしまうと「帽子」がなくなり、刀剣が脆く折れやすくなってしまうため。、刀工が作ったままの姿の茎を「生ぶ茎」（うぶなかご）、一方磨上げられた刀剣の茎は「磨上げ茎」と言います。

 

I'm a little confused here too, as this explanation differs from the (Western) usage of the terms I've encountered.

 

It says 磨上げ茎 is "suriage" when the tang is modified at the polishing stage.

 

Whereas, I'd always used the term for when the tang is cut down, later in the blades life.

 

By "cap" it sounded like they were describing when the blade is polished, if the end of the nakago is left altered (shaved) as part of the polishing process, it may be cut down to prevent the blade becoming brittle. Exposed grain / inner steel leading to corrosion perhaps? 

[Nobody]

4 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

There is an explanation as to the difference between 'suriage' and nakago wo 'kiritsumeru' here, but I still don't quite understand what they are saying.(?)

From https://www.touken-collection-nagoya.jp/nihonto-basic-knowledge/

Last paragraph of 2-1-2

茎の刃側の先端を「茎先」（なかごさき）、刀身の先端を「茎尻」（なかごじり）と呼び、茎尻は「磨上げ」が行われる際に削られる部分でもあります。また茎を切り詰めるのは、鋒／切先を削ってしまうと「帽子」がなくなり、刀剣が脆く折れやすくなってしまうため。、刀工が作ったままの姿の茎を「生ぶ茎」（うぶなかご）、一方磨上げられた刀剣の茎は「磨上げ茎」と言います。

 

I understand your confusion. The referred Japanese writing is poorly written.

Kokan Nagayama explains the terms a little clearer in “The connoisseur’s Book of Japanese Swords”.

 

According to his explanation, it should be noted that the definition of Ubu nakago includes “ … provided that the blade’s shape and length are changed only slightly, the sword is still regarded as an ubu nakago”.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Ah that's excellent. Many thanks, Moriyama San! (Yes, I found the original Japanese confusing. Thank goodness it was both of you too, and not just me!) 

[Nobody]

5 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

......................................

From https://www.touken-collection-nagoya.jp/nihonto-basic-knowledge/

Last paragraph of 2-1-2

茎の刃側の先端を「茎先」（なかごさき）、刀身の先端を「茎尻」（なかごじり）と呼び、..............................

........................................................................

 

I think that the definitions of 茎先 (nakagosaki) and 茎尻 (nakagojiri) are wrong. Again, Kokan Nagayama says that nakagosaki and nakagojiri mean the same position.

The attached image shows the explanation, though this part is not faithfully translated in the English version.

 

[sabiji]

Okay, and since in the "Suriage definition" the tapering and the material thickness of the Nagako are adjusted by grinding - even if the Mei and the original Yasurime are retained at least partially on one side, it explains the Kanji 磨 for me.