Iaido dude Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 After a long and patient wait, I have just acquired my first tsuba in the composition of the Jesuit IHS Slanting Rays of Light (Shakoh) or Sacrifice for the Christian Faith (Kirishitan Ikenie). This is not a tokei tsuba (why would samurai and bushi adorn their swords with fittings depicting clock gears?). Here is my summary of this tsuba. 8 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 Steve, thank you for sharing this! Very interesting! Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 6 Author Report Posted March 6 My pleasure, Jean. I edited my entry a bit to correct some part of the text, which may have been cut off. Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 Interesting tsuba. It may be that the central design was pushed into the rim, which would account for the fine lines around the 分銅 bundo weights. 1 1 Quote
jsv Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 Why would there be counterweights on a christian symbol? 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 6 Author Report Posted March 6 12 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said: Interesting tsuba. It may be that the central design was pushed into the rim, which would account for the fine lines around the 分銅 bundo weights. The lines are skillfully executed and well-defined on each of the bundo weights on omote. 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 6 Author Report Posted March 6 8 hours ago, jsv said: Why would there be counterweights on a christian symbol? It’s a great question. The counterweight is one of the seven treasures in Japanese mythology—auspicious items that have a Buddhistic significance. It also connotes strength and is a commonly used motif in the composition of Kyoto, Owari, and Kanayama works. One of the reasons that the Shakoh imagery is so assessable to the Japanese of that time is that it is very similar to the amida-yasuri imagery of the Buddha. So, we may be seeing a joining of Christian and Buddhist imagery. Fred’s is the only other Ko-Akasaka Shokah tsuba with bundo weights. 2 1 Quote
Deez77 Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 I always felt this shibuichi Kinai tsuba I have was related to a gear of some sort. It certainly has an industrial, mechanical look to it. Damon 2 Quote
Curran Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 @Deez77 Yours would be a good example of what Steve's write-up refers to a later "blending in" where the symbol loses its original meaning (like the Confederate Flag). Or (joking here) yours it could be philosophically broadcasting, "Don't blame me, I'm just a samurai cog in the shogunate machine". It definitely resembles a gear or cog. Steve's on the other hand.... looks like much of the symbolism found in the few preserved bits of Japan's Christian history. 2 Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 6 Author Report Posted March 6 59 minutes ago, Deez77 said: I always felt this shibuichi Kinai tsuba I have was related to a gear of some sort. It certainly has an industrial, mechanical look to it. Damon In the later Edo, merchants became enamored with European watch mechanisms. Then the tokei tsuba emerged, but the meaning and symbolism have nothing to do with samurai warrior culture. Quote
jsv Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 2 hours ago, Iaido dude said: The counterweight is one of the seven treasures in Japanese mythology Wich treasure is this cant find it? 2 hours ago, Iaido dude said: Fred’s is the only other Ko-Akasaka Shokah tsuba with bundo weights. Is it papered as ko-akasaka shokah tsuba? Wouldnt the Japanese know the difference between a clock and amida yasuri or Jesus? Quote
SteveM Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 27 minutes ago, jsv said: Wich treasure is this cant find it? It is one of the treasures included in a Japanese motif called "takara zukushi" (abundant treasures). The weight symbolizes wealth (the weight being used on scales used to weigh gold and silver). It appears midway down this article, along with the other treasures. https://collections.artsmia.org/art/131712/bedding-cover-unknown-Japanese Two weights appear under the bag 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 6 Author Report Posted March 6 The paper to Owari is just plain wrong, if you are referring to my tsuba. It’s not an Owari. It is clearly Akasaka. Fred's is attributed to Shodai Akasaka, although he feels that it may be earlier. The features and historical context point to Shodai or Nidai for both (they never signed their tsuba, so this attribution must be inferred). Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 6 Author Report Posted March 6 That Japanese motif often seen in arts and crafts is also called “myriad treasures.” The bundo weight is frequently seen in Owari Province tsuba of the Momoyama and Edo Periods, connoting strength and balance. And it is depicted exactly as it existed in the real world. Here is a copper one from the Edo Period. And here is my Kanayama tsuba with gourds and bundo weights (chock full of lumpy-bumpy tekkotsu). 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 6 Author Report Posted March 6 3 hours ago, jsv said: Wich treasure is this cant find it? Is it papered as ko-akasaka shokah tsuba? Wouldnt the Japanese know the difference between a clock and amida yasuri or Jesus? I think that the Japanese in the era that we are discussing new very well the difference between Zen Buddhism and Christianity, but it is an eastern mindset to be able to embody the "both/and" rather than the "either/or." Whether Buddha's amida-yasuri halo or Christ's halo, they speak to commonalities and shared values. Moving from Buddhism to Christianity is not like leaping off a cliff. It is more like a "soft shoe" to the right. My grandmother in Taiwan was a Buddhist, Catholic, Taoist, and Ancestor Worshipper. Each tradition had something valuable to offer to different aspects of her life. Chinese and Japanese don't operate in dichotomies. Now, whether modern Japanese tsuba collectors can discern the difference between an amida-yasuri Hoan, Shakoh Akasaka, and Edo generic clock gear--that is another thing altogether. Quote
Tim Evans Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 Omura Sumitada of Hizen was the first Christian Daimyo, baptized as Bartholomew. He opened the port of what became Nagasaki to foreign trade. Interestingly, a kamon of the Omura clan looks a lot like these tsuba. Oda Nobunaga was tolerant of the new religion and allowed the Jesuits and Franciscans to build churches and baptize converts, so the faith was practiced openly. I suspect these tsuba were worn by Omura Samurai. 3 Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 6 Author Report Posted March 6 Tim, it certainly is a possibility. However, the Omura clan would have to have commissioned Shakoh tsuba from elsewhere. I'm not aware that the Hizen smiths of the Yagami and Nanban schools produced Shakoh tsuba. Most of the 1st style Shakoh were apparently Owari, Kyoto, or Akasaka tsuba. However, Fred notes that regions such as Hizen had extensive exposure to the Jesuits and it seems quite likely that the Kirishitan samurai wore Shakoh tsuba in declaration of their faith. Quote
jsv Posted March 7 Report Posted March 7 Where did he get the idea from any sources? If I didnt belive it was clock related I could claim its the crown of thornes. I also read the tokei is only an edo attribution so it cant be earlier. Quote
jsv Posted March 7 Report Posted March 7 It looks more like a clock gear to me then a jesuit emblem 2 Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 7 Author Report Posted March 7 The one from the Varshavsky collection on the lower right is in a later style in which the motif is being softened and disguised to avoid persecution. It is quite typical of the mid-late Edo period. These 1st style Early Edo Shakoh don’t look like clock gears. And both are proto-Akasaka, as I have argued from their features and historical context. 3 Quote
FlorianB Posted March 7 Report Posted March 7 Did Ko-Akasaka - in this case Shodai Tadamasa - produce such fully rounded rims? Quote
Jake6500 Posted March 7 Report Posted March 7 11 hours ago, jsv said: It looks more like a clock gear to me then a jesuit emblem Tony, the number of times I have seen this exact debate/discussion play out on the forum must be approaching the double digits! 1 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted March 7 Author Report Posted March 7 9 hours ago, FlorianB said: Did Ko-Akasaka - in this case Shodai Tadamasa - produce such fully rounded rims? I was under the impression that all of the Ko-Akasaka masters produced distinctively rounded rims. Mine doesn’t have the 3-layer puff pastry construction (mokume-game) that I have seen in Nidai Akasaka work. Using Deepseek AI query, it doesn’t appear that Shodai forged mokume-gane tsuba. This was developed by later generations starting with Nidai. Here is a possible prototype-Akasaka tsuba with features of Owari and Akasaka tsuba: https://richardturner.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/who-can-it-be-now/ Quote
FlorianB Posted Friday at 05:26 PM Report Posted Friday at 05:26 PM Sorry for confusing You. Of course a maru-mimi is a typical trait of Akasaka smiths. I was talking about the ring-shape of the rim, the technical term is torus. The generations from the fourth onwards used this shape frequently, but I’m not sure about Ko-Akasaka and first generation particularly. 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted Friday at 08:14 PM Author Report Posted Friday at 08:14 PM Great point, Florian. The rim is rounded, but not radially like a true torus. I’m waiting for sunny weather to take a better pic to show this. The inner wall actually has a flat portion, but it is more rounded than Fred’s. His is flatter on the omote and ura surfaces—more like Owari. Perhaps the unusual quasi-torus shape of the mimi reflects experimentation—prototyping as it were. It creates a very robust and substantial effect even if this idea was ultimately abandoned by the Akasaka atelier. Quote
Iaido dude Posted Friday at 08:21 PM Author Report Posted Friday at 08:21 PM Here is another example of a nice Akasaka Shakoh of the 2nd style with shorter rays, rounded rays around the left and right diamond posts, and small weights on top and bottom. This gets increasingly exaggerated so that Christian samurai can begin to say “Am I Kirishitan? No. Not my circus. Not my monkey.” It likely dates after 1624 when we don’t see the Owari influenced bundo weight motif anymore—replaced by straight or diamond posts. Quote
ROKUJURO Posted Saturday at 12:56 AM Report Posted Saturday at 12:56 AM 11 hours ago, Iaido dude said: ..... Mine doesn’t have the 3-layer puff pastry construction (mokume-gane) that I have seen in Nidai Akasaka work. Using Deepseek AI query, it doesn’t appear that Shodai forged mokume-gane tsuba. This was developed by later generations starting with Nidai. .... If I may correct that a bit: The well-known three-layer construction of AKASAKA TSUBA has nothing to do with MOKUME-GANE. It should also not be confused with SAN-MAI technique in TSUBA. In AKASAKA TSUBA, the 3-layer build-up, visible in the NAKAGO-ANA, is a result of not so tightly forged welds. It does not show in the MIMI. MOKUME-GANE can be translated as "metal looking like wood". In this technique, impure iron is forge-welded, distorted and folded. With a more or less intense etching process, different layers can be made visible. A SHAKÔ TSUBA from my collection with pronounced rays: 1 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted Saturday at 05:12 PM Author Report Posted Saturday at 05:12 PM Thanks, Jean. Very nice Shakoh. I must have misunderstood the AI-generated query search as well as used the term "sanmei" incorrectly: So, there is no actual term for the "puff pastry" construction (maybe that should be the term, hahaha!). Quote
Iaido dude Posted Saturday at 06:01 PM Author Report Posted Saturday at 06:01 PM Jean, here is a Shakoh on Jauce right not that is identical in composition to yours, but in terrible condition: https://www.jauce.com/auction/r1174195546 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted Saturday at 06:46 PM Report Posted Saturday at 06:46 PM Thank you Steven, that TSUBA on Jauce is probably from the same workshop! Very close! Actually, when speaking about MOKUME-GANE, mostly soft metal compositions are meant. We have a Swedish artist here on NMB (Björn Lundin) who works with this technique and produces quite promising results! In case the MOKUME-GANE definition is applied to iron TSUBA, only the etching process can reveal the wood-grain pattern! There are many TSUBA schools with a final acid treatment for their products, but the wood-grain effect can only be seen in iron that is not fully refined and homogenous. As far as I know, traditional AKASAKA TSUBA did not undergo this acid treatment. Again, fire-welding is a standard technique in TSUBA making as in all other pre-industrial forging. All raw iron material had to be processed and refined by the smith, and that included bending, folding, and fire-welding. So, when AKASAKA masters made TSUBA, they usually had three layers in their billet. Only thorough research will reveal if these layers were of slightly differing quality similar to sword making (my own research does not go that far). Anyhow, in punching the NAKAGO-ANA out in the process, transverse forces can result in separating the layers just a bit so we can see them. This is not a sign of minor quality in these TSUBA! Instead, practice would show that they are quite tough and resilient in spite of their often delicate design! Let's not forget that good AKASAKA TSUBA can have a thickness of up to 9 mm, so they were definitely made for combat and not for show! 2 Quote
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