Need some expertise on blade.

[Nazar]

Hello everyone!

 

I believe you people have witnessed a lot  of such stories here. One evening I was browsing through local internet auction pages in search of Great War articles like Austro-Hungarian or German belt buckles or trench knives.  Suddenly I stumbled upon this "Katana" article. Something in the lot caught my attention, so I added it to my watchlist. Some days after I received notification that the listing time is ending. It so happened that I had a free evening that day so I decided to take another look at the sword. The longer I was looking the more curious it seemed to me. The handle, the sheath and the guard definitely looked like "replicas" even for such a complete noob in Japanese swords like me.What caught my attention was the blade itself. I liked its shape and somehow it didn't look phony to me. I didn't have much time, it was like an hour until the listing ended. For this time I managed to decipher one of two writings on the tang (the one that looked older and less accurately cut). I found out that it has to be a date of manufacturing and to my surprise the deciphering of it made perfect sense. With a little time left I decided  that even if the sword is a copy I like it anyway, thus it is worth fighting.  So I won the sword.

 

After the sword arrived I mostly immediately disassembled it and laid aside all parts except the blade itself. For the next several days I spent all my free time learning about nihonto, trying to find more information on the blade I bought. This learning by itself turned out to be pleasant and helped me to switch my mind from my everyday tasks.  And that's how I found this forum. I wish to thank all the people who participated and still participate in filling this site with information. I ran through many topics here and followed many links. Yet, even as the date on the blade narrowed the area of search, I am aware that for such a short time I only touched the surface of the ocean. There is a chance that the blade may be genuine, so I need your expertise on it.

 

 

 

As for the dimensions of the sword, here they are:

 

Total length: ~106cm

Nagasa:  ~84cm

Sori: 31mm

Weight: 1094gr

 

Date: 弘化丙午年八月日   ( Made on a day in the eighth month of the year of the horse of the Kōka era [August 1846] ).

 

As  for the signature that has to be mei ( 东条雄一 ), it's confusing. The persons who cut the date and made this signature seem to be different persons. Also, for all I learned,  there should be 東  instead of  东. So I assume this writing is a later addition. That's if my theory of the genuine blade is true.

 

Unfortunately someone tampered with tang in maybe the worst way possible. At some stage  that person just cut part of the tang with an angle grinder and then grinded it, mostly from the side of mune machi. Also Mekugi-Ana was widened with a drill bit of larger diameter. This was made for the only reason - to fit the tsuka that person had at hand. And yep, hamachi and munemachi also were messed up for the sake of installing new habaki. However for me it became a proof that the blade itself has history far longer than phony tsuka, tsube and saya. And yet original file marks are still visible.

 

Alas, it seems that the  very same person that mutilated tang, also gave the whole blade  "full course" of buff wheel and polishing compound.  Yet, to my noob eye all parts of the blade look to be legitim. I gathered as many pictures of confirmed ayasugi-hada (綾杉肌)  as I could in such a short time and again, to my eye the hada on my blade doesn't look phony.

[Nazar]

 

 

 

[Nazar]

 

 

 

[ChrisW]

Almost certainly Chinese fakery. The mei is complete jibberish. The nakago treatment is all wrong, the machi do not line up, etc etc.

Edit: also looking at pictures of the 'hada' suggest this is some kind of Damascus/etched metal, which is not how the Japanese did theirs.

 

Stay far away from this one. Start with some books and attend some local sword club meetings/shows if possible!

[Nazar]

 

 

 

[Lewis B]

I agree with Chris. Too many red flags point to Chinese origin. Read up about Chinese fakes. Besides the areas already mentioned the kissaki is also typical. Hopefully you didn't pay too much and can use it as a learning experience. 

[Nazar]

Thank you guys.

 

I was ready to face the fact of the sword being not genuine. As a matter of fact I estimated the chance that it is genuine as very small. However, I had to check, so thank you for your input!

 

Alas, I am far away from club meetings and shows. Same thing with time for reading books. Three years ago  russia invaded my country, so I sent my family westward (to Europe) and volunteered for the army.   I came a long way from being a machine gunner to running my own small unit. By some luck I wasn't KIA so far, however I got my share of concussions. On the bright side, I am still alive and still doing my best in this war.  On the other hand, not much is left from my former life these days and collecting is one of such things. It keeps me sane.  Therefore, the best I could do these days is to not overstep my small area of expertise on other subjects. At least until I master this new area on some basic level.

[George KN]

Unfortunately I agree with Chris and Lewis - the acid treatment is a big giveaway that it isn't genuine (you can even see it on the tang).

 

Don't be disheartened though, quite a few of us began collecting properly after first buying a fake (including me!). You can't know what you don't yet know, and it's hard to find info on nihonto.

 

Best of luck learning more, and never be afraid of asking us questions about a sword before buying

 

Also, thank you for your service - while I'm nice and safe in the UK so it's easy for me to say, but what's happening in Ukraine both saddens and angers me deeply. Stay strong.

[Brian]

Sorry Nazar, but at least you got some good education out of it, and I am sure the next one will be much better.
Good luck that side! Hope you stay safe.
Now if you can just find a way to get me a captured Kampo Ratnik 6X9-1 bayonet out of Ukraine...I'd be a very happy man :-)

They keep dangling them at me on Reibert, but can't have one...lol

We have some Ukraine collectors here, so the swords are out there. One hint, if you can see very visible hada like that, stay away. Nihonto usually has very subtle and less visible hada and the fakes overdo it.

[Nazar]

Thank you for your answers and your words of support!

 

These three years weren't bright for us and it seems we have even darker times ahead. Yet things are much simpler for me these days. There is a job and it has to be done. It was much harder to make the first step in 2022 when a full scale invasion began.  Yesterday it was three years since I waved my family goodbye at the railway station in Kyiv. Haven't seen them since then. Also in the last months it became harder and harder to switch my mind from my everyday tasks to something civil. So the sword, even being fake, was worth buying, because it helped me to trick my own mind.

 

Brian, you surprised me by your knowledge on Reibert. I am used to getting some goods from there. When it comes to blades, just before I enlisted, I bought a replica of Spyderco Schempp EuroEdge from here for a pocket knife.  Turned out to be very useful in soldiers' everyday life. Later I replaced it with a smaller blade, Kershaw XCOM. I have some weakness for daggers so no wonder when post war but genuine Fairbern-Sykes dagger turned out on Reibert, I bought it.

 

As for the Ratnik, they are as rare as the AK-12 itself. Most of the enemy troops are issued with ordinary AK-74, at best it's AK-74 with factory installed upgrade kit. I'll ask some people, but chances to get the knife are low. There is also a question of how to send it abroad. Customs wouldn't pass it through. 

 

Also, let me explain why I decided that there is a possibility of the blade being genuine. You see, not being an expert on nihonto, I do have some expertise on other subjects. Long story short:

Before the war I had a small motorcycle workshop. To anyone interested here is my  website https://www.gazzz-garage.com . I still keep it online in hope that one day I will return to my projects. To keep things going I designed and manufactured conversion kits for motorcycles. I had been selling them all over the World. Did other jobs, like rebuilding engines and making custom spoked wheels too. Sure, my main goal was "full scale" custom projects. I liked to work alone, but one couldn't do all the jobs. So I worked out cooperation with  subcontractors. The main things that I've got done by subcontractors on a regular basis were: fiberglass works, welding, paint job, seat cushioning and upholstering, glass beads blasting, laser cutting and all kinds of machining, be that surfacing of cylinder head or CNC milling. I still had a lot of different kinds of work done by myself, like overhauling engines (could even mix parts from different models of motorcycles in one engine), suspension, wheel assembling and truing, metalworking and polishing. But narrowing my specialities I was able to perfect them with every project finished or job done. Working on engines and other parts I learned to "read" parts, this helps a lot when you receive a gearbox in the bucket and have not only sort it out but assemble with  all washer oriented as they were by factory.  Another thing is polishing. I did a lot of aluminum polishing and with old Japanese engine cases I not once encountered  non-homogeneity of aluminum alloy of which cases were cast. It means that some areas of the surface were softer than others.  It wasn't visible during dry or wet stages of sandpapering, it started to show itself on the stage of polishing. And the longer you use a buffing wheel on such a surface the more "damascus" pattern of aluminum becomes visible. And that's only one thing. With time I worked out my own methods on how to work with such surfaces.

In the case of tang and machi that don't line up, it was obvious to me that someone messed them and that was done at least twice. From what I could see, I see the initial surface of the tang with marks of filing. Then there is the first grinding. From the look of it it was done with a grinding wheel motor. Someone tried to hide this messy job with chemicals. This was followed by another course of cutting and grinding, though this time no one tried to blacken the marks.

As for the hada, I am certain that the blade was treated with a buffing wheel and polishing compound. Seeing how it went with tang and knowing the local "traditions" of polishing, I am more than sure that both,  buffing wheel and compound were quite coarse. Also such treatment usually utilizes the concept that could be expressed like "press harder, keep longer". At that time I was aware of the difference between how damascus steel is made and how hada is formed. Also I was aware of the superficiality of my knowledge. So I made a guess that such treatment will expose hada  and may cause visual effects similar to damascus. Especially  if the remains of the polishing compound wasn't not removed completely. Also I took into account that even after such brutal polishing hada doesn't look like phony damascus katanas from ebay.