Thought of new idea, electroforming of swords and knives

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I have a new idea in my mind shaped in long time. As you know electroforming is in use at worldwide to craft bronze sculptures . And US and world banknotes copied from the master engraving with electroforming to print large amount of money.

 

I dont know whether steel could be electroformed and with desired crystal structure or say phase. But if we can do it , we can electroform - not only 7 layers in Japanese swords - but hundreds of different layers, different metals, different microstructures , may be for example tungsten at the hard edge or chrome hamon , or whatever you imagine.

 

Electroforming is a way to cathode anode transfer of metals within liquid and with the help of electricity.

 

This idea is copyrighted worldwide and others can not patent the ideas here.

 

Mustafa Umut Sarac

Istanbul

mustafaumutsarac@gmail.com

[Brian]

Yeah, but what's the point? We aren't devoted to what steel performs the best in the world, we are here because of the Art of the Japanese Sword. How to improve the steel or make them in more modern ways isn't our focus.
 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I am an archaeologist and know the history stuff better than you Brian , today is futures archaeology plus there is a branch as archaeology of future , my sister is an professor about it. If you want to masturbate how you are intelligent and intellectual because you know the past of something , you can do it but I will make my way at future not at the past of Japanese sword like simple stuff. Brian , play chess , it improves your IQ in next 30 years , I think you need to play to reach my level. I gave my 10 minutes to train you. If you want to want to be trained more , I will give randez vous to 30 years later , start chess and think like chess.

[Tohagi]

This was quite a rude and unjustified answer. You know noone here, what is making you so proud of yourself?

 

Eric

[George KN]

Wow - it's rare I see a comment on here that is just so offensive it becomes hilarious, but I think I've seen one today! 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I know enough people around the world and everyday I recieve e mails from argentina to turkmenistan. I shared an important idea , judge from there.

[Tohagi]

The issue is not your idea, I'd often though of trying inlaying steel this way, it's your manners...

And manners maketh man.

[George KN]

Ok, ignoring the way you just treated the administrator of the forum - Mustafa, yes, the idea of using electroforming to make a sword with the most efficient and or best combination of layers is pretty cool, and probably quite possible. But as Brian said, being a good cutter or an indestructible blade isn't what make nihonto special.

 

It's not like we regularly use the swords for combat or regularly test them to destruction to see how well they perform. I think almost everyone here appreciates them for their art and/or for their history. Making the perfect sword, with the perfect hamon, in a way that can be repeated hundreds of thousands of times using an automated process goes against the whole point of artistic intent...

 

[Brian]

Can only laugh at the response...and after all that, still didn't address my comments about modernizing Japanese steel being irrelevant to everything we study and collect. May as well make a sword out of Elmax or Maxamet. Not sure what the point is...that the Japanese have been doing it wrong for 1000 years?
Yes...if you want to talk about modern sword production from a purely functional point of view, there are many forums for that. This isn't one of them.
So tell us Mustafa, once you get this electroformed steel you seem to passionate about, how does the nie, inazuma, chikei, nioi, sunagashi etc look? How about the hada?
Hope you are able to duplicate 1000 years of art, beyond function.

Oh...and I play chess multiple times a day. Not an expert by any means. Far from it. But I know my Sicilian from my Caro-Kann

Send my regards to my good friends and suppliers at Akkar Silah Sanayi, Girsan, AKSA, Akdaş Silah A.Ş, Kral Arms etc etc.

[Lewis B]

  On 2/28/2025 at 1:25 PM, Tohagi said:

The issue is not your idea, I'd often though of trying inlaying steel this way, it's your manners...

And manners maketh man.

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I want to believe something is lost in translation. Dear Mr Umut can you use a better translator (Deepl for example) and/or please post in a more respectful way.

[The Forest Ninja]

I don't know of 1 blade that was ever created by using electricity alone? Do You have a link for this Mustafa?

I do have pure Electrolytic iron and pure iron powder which can be used after it's carburized to make a blade 

including a Katana. But that's totally different than what You're thinking about I suspect.

 

Note:  I think it would better to have all Your steel threads put into 1 thread so it's easier to answer and keep everything together.

[Scogg]

Well, he's an archeologist with a professor sister, plays high level chess, and regularly emails people from Argentina to Turkmenistan... Something tells me it's not poor translations, and he's telling us exactly what kind of person he is. 

I commend the zen patience being displayed in this thread 

[The Forest Ninja]

Btw: Electrolytic iron is not a new invention. So You can forget about getting a patent on it. 

 

  Quote

In addition, it is used as a raw material for Japanese swords produced using traditional Japanese techniques.

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Read more about it here. 

 

Electrolytic iron

[CSM101]

Mustafa,

 

Perhaps you should read again what this forum is about:

 

Dedicated to the study and preservation of the genuine Japanese sword

 

Whatever you are up to sounds more like a modern blade forum.

[reinhard]

Mustafa wrote:

"This idea is copyrighted worldwide and others can not patent the ideas here."

 

Well, Mustafa, I don't intend to steal your ideas.

I think nobody does.

What you don't understand is:

Producing replicas on the basis of new technologies is of no interest here.

 

Your rude and highly aggressive attitude has a suicidal touch, as far as this board is concerned.

Reminds me of a character kicked of this board not so long ago.

But maybe that is what you want.

 

Anyway, I am a chess-player and it seems you don't understand basics.

 

reinhard

 

 

[John C]

  On 2/28/2025 at 1:08 PM, Mustafa Umut Sarac said:

I am an archaeologist

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Mustafa:

I suggest you use your knowledge of archaeology and provide input on the history of Japanese swords. We study Japanese swords for their aesthetic value as well as their performance value in relation to other swords and steels of the time. Comparing apples to apples, as we would say. If you have input on the relationship between Japanese steel and steel of other cultures from the same time period (1300 to 1800, let's say), we would love to hear it.

 

John C.

[Robert S]

Mustafa has been completely upfront about the fact that he knows little about steel, traditional steel manufacture methods, etc.  The fact that he then dives into thinking that he can patent something, and becomes offensive in his responses, is telling.  But if there is a further need to look into this, I suggest he should step away from nihonto and spend some time looking into the current issues around KTM 790/890 camshafts, and powder metallurgy.

[Lewis B]

  On 3/11/2025 at 8:38 PM, Robert S said:

Mustafa has been completely upfront about the fact that he knows little about steel, traditional steel manufacture methods, etc.  The fact that he then dives into thinking that he can patent something, and becomes offensive in his responses, is telling.  But if there is a further need to look into this, I suggest he should step away from nihonto and spend some time looking into the current issues around KTM 790/890 camshafts, and powder metallurgy.

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I doubt he'll be back. Last visit 28 Feb. There are other forums better suited to his personality and objectives. 

[Kantaro]

I do wonder if she is pretty...

[Deiro]

A pair of blades forged from the same steel by the same smith may have similar flaws.

 

Don't get your hopes up.
 

I know I shouldn't be replying but I can't help it...

[Matsunoki]

Methinks we were vistited by a returning cuckoo 

[Lewis B]

  On 3/12/2025 at 9:45 AM, Matsunoki said:

Methinks we were vistited by a returning cuckoo 

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Brian will know based on the associated IP address. There is a legitmate Mustafa Umut Sarac with that gmail account in Istanbul.

[reinhard]

A gmail account doesn't proove anything.

 

reinhard

 

 

[Brian]

No..I do believe he is what he says he is based on a few tests...a Turkish scholar more interested in new ideas than Nihonto. He's all over the internet with various different interests and theories.
No matter, was but a blip on the radar.

[PNSSHOGUN]

"Every inventor is a crackpot until his idea succeeds." ~ Mark Twain

[Lewis B]

  On 3/16/2025 at 1:17 AM, reinhard said:

A gmail account doesn't proove anything.

 

reinhard

 

 

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But in this instance its a genuine gmail account. Just Google it and you will see posts with the same email address dating back years. Same email structure too.

[reinhard]

This conversation is drifting into the arena of the absurd.

In order to verify a fake google/gmail-acount I should "google" it?

Are you serious?

 

reinhard

[nulldevice]

  On 3/18/2025 at 1:50 AM, reinhard said:

This conversation is drifting into the arena of the absurd.

In order to verify a fake google/gmail-acount I should "google" it?

Are you serious?

 

reinhard

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You can see that someone with the same name and email has been active on many different blade, cymbal, music, and other forums going back years now and that the poster has a very unique writting/commenting style that is consistent across the years, forums, and disciplines being discussed. Going even further, you can find social media accounts tied to the same person and email as well. People will post way too much about their personal lives on the internet and with some google searching, you can dig up quite a bit on people without too much effort. 

 

Combining this information, you can start to piece together a map of someone's hobbies, family, profession, and much more depending on what they choose to share. I don't want this to sound creepy, but that's the nature of things these days. 

 

Of course Brian could look at the IP addresses of this account and others to see if there are any matches. Someone who willingly divulges full names, emails, and location is probably not using a VPN if I had to make an assumption. I wouldn't ask Brian to divulge that information anyways as that is now bordering on abusing admin privileges in my opinion. Everything else I found, was done in about 5 minutes and a few carefully crafted google searches. 

 

Based on all of the above, I would say with fairly high confidence, that the gmail account is legit, the person is who they say they are, and that they have a sister who is a professor (hint hint, you can search all of this stuff too and confirm all of it). As they say, there is 0 privacy on the internet.

 

Sincerely,

Someone who does stuff like this a lot for a living
 

[Brian]

Not sure why it matters.
But this person is who they say they are. Certainly resembles trolls from the past, but in this case he's a troll of a different tribe.

[Lewis B]

Seriously, the only absurdity is the inability to grasp why a Google search would be useful when the authenticity of a forum member is being questioned. Is this Kindergarten? Luckily for you Chandler spelled it out.