And China

Mustafa Umut Sarac · February 27

I think and read somewhere chinese language , ceramics and metallurgy are predates Japan , and there is religion aspect also but I am not educated neither of them.

I want to see the chinese swords and chronology list and the swords reached the Japan land and the metallurgy of them ? Did China make a steel like tamahagane ? How was the quality ?

Did China widely used softcore technology ? Compare timing with China and Japan.

Chinese metallurgy has a very long history—one that predates many aspects of Japanese culture such as language, ceramics, and even sword‐making. Over centuries, China developed sophisticated techniques for producing bronze and iron (and later, steel) weapons, and its sword-making traditions influenced—and were later distinguished from—the evolving practices in Japan.

Chinese Swords: A Chronological Overview

Bronze Age (circa 1100–500 BCE):
- Early Chinese swords were made of bronze, used by elites and warriors alike.
Early Iron Age / Spring and Autumn Period (770–476 BCE):
- Transition from bronze to iron swords. Iron technology allowed for stronger, more durable weapons.
Warring States Period (475–221 BCE):
- The jian—a straight, double-edged sword—became prominent. This period saw significant refinement in iron-working and forging techniques.
Imperial China (Han Dynasty onward, ~202 BCE–220 CE):
- Steel-making techniques improved, and the jian evolved into not only a weapon but also a symbol of scholarly and martial prowess.
Tang (618–907 AD) and Song (960–1279 AD) Dynasties:
- Further advancements in metallurgy led to high-quality, aesthetically refined swords. Techniques such as pattern welding and precise heat treatment were in use, producing blades celebrated both for their functionality and artistry.
Ming Dynasty (1368–1644 AD):
- Continued evolution produced swords that combined ceremonial beauty with battlefield effectiveness.

Transmission to Japan and the Evolution of Japanese Swordmaking

Cultural Exchanges:
- From the Yayoi period onward (roughly 3rd century BCE to 3rd century AD), Chinese cultural and technological influences—often transmitted via Korea—began reaching Japan.
- Early Japanese swords, influenced by Chinese (and Korean) designs, initially imitated straight blades like the jian.
Local Evolution:
- Over time, Japanese swordsmiths developed their own techniques, most notably the production of tamahagane steel in a traditional tatara furnace.
- This unique process, along with the practice of differential hardening, led to the creation of curved, single-edged swords (like the katana) that were highly prized for their exceptional sharpness and resilience.

Chinese Steel vs. Japanese Tamahagane

Chinese Steel Production:
- Traditionally produced using bloomery and crucible techniques, Chinese steel-making often resulted in more homogeneous steel.
- The quality was high for its era, and many Chinese swords were both functionally effective and artistically decorated. However, the processes generally did not focus on creating a blade with a deliberately varied hardness.
Japanese Tamahagane:
- Made from iron sand and charcoal in a tatara furnace, tamahagane is prized for its variable carbon content.
- This variability allows swordsmiths to forge a blade with a hard edge for sharpness and a softer core for flexibility and shock absorption—a process known as differential hardening.
Quality Comparison:
- Both traditions produced excellent blades. Chinese swords were admired for their craftsmanship and often featured beautiful patterning or decoration.
- Japanese tamahagane, however, became legendary for its performance in combat, with the specific process of differential hardening setting it apart.

“Softcore” Technology and Differential Hardening

Japanese Differential Hardening:
- In Japanese sword-making, the blade is coated with a layer of clay before quenching. This causes the edge to cool and harden more quickly than the spine, resulting in a hard edge and softer core.
- This method (sometimes informally referred to as a "soft core" design) is a hallmark of the Japanese katana, providing a balance of strength, flexibility, and cutting ability.
Chinese Techniques:
- Traditional Chinese sword-making, while advanced, typically did not emphasize a deliberate differential hardening process to create a soft core with a hardened edge.
- Instead, Chinese blades were often uniformly hardened or produced using pattern welding techniques, focusing on the intrinsic qualities of the steel available.
Timing and Innovation:
- Although Chinese metallurgy and forging date back millennia, the specific innovation of differential hardening emerged prominently in Japan during the later Heian period (around the 10th century) and was further refined during the Kamakura period.
- In contrast, while Chinese smiths experimented with various forging techniques, the "soft core" approach became a defining characteristic of Japanese sword-making rather than a widespread Chinese practice.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · February 27

Below is a list of notable Chinese steel swords—with approximate historical periods and brief descriptions—that highlight the evolution of Chinese sword-making and metallurgy:

1. Early Jian (Straight, Double-Edged Swords)

Time Period: Zhou Dynasty (c. 1046–256 BCE) to Warring States Period (475–221 BCE)
Description:
- These are among the earliest known Chinese steel swords.
- Characterized by a straight, double-edged blade, they served as both weapons and status symbols.
- Their design laid the foundation for later refined versions used by scholars and warriors.

2. Han Dynasty Jian

Time Period: Han Dynasty (202 BCE–220 CE)
Description:
- With improved steel-making techniques, these jian became more balanced and elegantly designed.
- They are noted for their finer craftsmanship and are often seen as the archetypal “gentleman’s sword.”

3. Early Dao (Curved, Single-Edged Swords)

Time Period: Transitioning from the late Warring States into the Han Dynasty
Description:
- Evolving from the straight sword, early dao featured a single-edged, slightly curved blade.
- These were popular among soldiers for their ease of use in slashing motions.

4. Zhanmadao (Horse-Cutting Sword)

Time Period: Prominently used during the Sui–Tang dynasties (6th–10th CE)
Description:
- A long, heavy sword designed specifically to counter cavalry, with a length and curvature suited for cutting down horses.
- Its design reflects the tactical demands of mounted warfare.

5. Liuyedao (Willow-Leaf Sword)

Time Period: Song Dynasty (960–1279 CE)
Description:
- Renowned for its gracefully curved “willow leaf” profile, which offers both elegance and excellent cutting ability.
- This sword is celebrated for its balance and the high quality of its steel, embodying refined craftsmanship.

6. Changdao (Long Sword)

Time Period: Appearing in various forms throughout Chinese history
Description:
- The term “changdao” (literally “long sword”) generally refers to longer blades, often used with two hands for increased reach and power.
- Their designs varied by region and period, reflecting both martial needs and evolving metallurgical practices.

7. Legendary and Folkloric Swords

Fangtianjian (Square-Heaven Sword):
- Time Period: More mythological than historically verified, this sword appears in legends and literature.
- Description:
  - Often associated with divine justice and heroic figures, it symbolizes the ideal of righteous power in Chinese folklore.
Guan Dao (Green Dragon Crescent Blade):
- Time Period: Popularized during the Three Kingdoms period (220–280 CE) and later romanticized in literature
- Description:
  - Although technically a polearm due to its long haft, the guan dao’s design and legendary status (famously wielded by the general Guan Yu) have made it one of the most iconic “sword-like” weapons in Chinese martial lore.

Metallurgy & Quality

Steel Production:
- Chinese sword-makers traditionally used bloomery and later crucible methods to produce high-quality steel.
- Although their processes generally yielded more uniform steel (as opposed to the differential hardening seen in Japanese tamahagane), the craftsmanship was highly refined—resulting in blades that were both functional and artistically celebrated.
Cultural Impact:
- These swords were not only tools of warfare but also carried cultural and symbolic significance, influencing martial arts, literature, and art throughout Chinese history.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · February 27

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jian Jian Chinese Sword Link with Image

https://en.wikipedia.../Dao_(Chinese_sword)

JIANEight_Immortals_Crossing_the_Sea.jpg.6cb37d7600078e763490a0eec3f4def3.jpg

Double Crescent Sword Kung Fu Video Link

David Flynn · February 27

Hello Mustafa, Adrien Schlemmer, is the man you need to speak to. He is very conversant in both Japanese and Chinese swords. I believe he also studied the metallurgy, of both. I think he's still a member here, if not, look him up on FB.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · February 27

12 minutes ago, David Flynn said:

Hello Mustafa, Adrien Schlemmer, is the man you need to speak to. He is very conversant in both Japanese and Chinese swords. I believe he also studied the metallurgy, of both. I think he's still a member here, if not, look him up on FB.

Hello David, I found him at facebook , Japanese scissors guy , I did not see better than his trade. I will write him. Thank you very much.

Stephen · February 27

Mustafa

Your print is seven gods of Fortune if you Google that you know each name nothing to do with swords coming from China

Tohagi · February 28

Hello Mustafa,

I have an original kandao, and a nihonto of the same time area... nothing to compare in steel quality or craftmanship.

Best regards,

Eric

ROKUJURO · February 28

Mustafa,

a lot of text but not all is correct:

Japanese Tamahagane:
- Made from iron sand and charcoal in a tatara furnace, tamahagane is praised for its variable carbon content.
- This variability allows swordsmiths to forge a blade with a hard edge for sharpness and a softer core for flexibility and shock absorption—a process known as differential hardening.
Quality Comparison:
- Both traditions produced excellent blades. Chinese swords were admired for their craftsmanship and often featured beautiful patterning or decoration.
- Japanese tamahagane, however, became legendary for its performance in combat, with the specific process of differential hardening setting it apart.

The technique and some technical terms were obviously not understood by the author. A HARD EDGE has primarily nothing to do with sharpness. You can even sharpen a soft iron blade! A HARD EDGE has a better cutting edge retention; with other words, it will hold the sharpness longer under comparable conditions.

Differential hardening means the (not only Japanese!) YAKIIRE process with a partial clay covering of the blade. In the quenching, different cooling rates in the blade result in different hardness zones.

TAMAHAGANE is no miracle material. It is bloomery steel with different content of carbon. It is a raw material that has to be refined prior to its use. All iron producing cultures used basically similar processes for their respective metal making, but the Japanese, being very good craftsmen, found ways to make the best steel in their medieval period. The performance of Japanese blades is mostly related to the craft, not to the basic material.

2devnul · Tuesday at 08:17 AM

On 2/28/2025 at 1:48 AM, ROKUJURO said:

TAMAHAGANE is no miracle material.

Hi,

I would even say it is 'crap' material. That is the reason why Japanese smiths invented all the methods in order to make their swords durability better. I wonder if Japanese smiths would invent all that craftsmanship if they had Swedish-type/quality of iron/steel available on islands.

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