WW2 in the hands of a Russian POW?

[blades87]

I came across this item on eBay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

 

Looking at the condition of the saya and fittings, it looks like it was made in a manner not indicative of the mass production swords of WW2. I started reading the description of the item and I began to raise questions.

 

The seller was told by the owner that he received the sword from a Russian POW camp.

 

"I have no history other than The previous owner said he got it at a Russian Prisoner of war camp during WWII."

 

Ok, here's where things don't quite add up or seem to be a bit vague. While the Russians had 500K to 750k Japanese POWs after WW2, most of those Japanese POWs would have been fighting in China or Korea. The likelihood of Allied Pacific theater forces meeting up with Russian forces seems a bit unlikely, based on what I understand about the war in the Pacific theater.

 

Furthermore, the likelihood of a European theater forces getting a Japanese sword seems very unlikely. And, based upon what I know about the fate Russian POWs returning to Russia met, I find it really unlikely that the events described by the owner really happened.

 

This leads me to draw the following conclusions:

 

1. The seller was handed a tale by an owner who either didn't have their facts straight or made it up.

2. The sword may be a Chinese variant

3. Some poor Japanese soldier hauled a family sword into China. This may account for all of those fantastic copies we see coming out of China!

 

So, I pass this topic to the folks on the forums to get their thoughts on the historical accuracy of the facts outlined in this item description.

 

By the way, I looked at the mei on the blade and have no clue who the smith might be. The factory optional paint on the tang and habaki are a nice touch. So is the fine grinding technique the owner used to polish the blade.

 

Flood gates open below.

 

Cheers,

 

Toby

[Ted Tenold]

By the way, I looked at the mei on the blade and have no clue who the smith might be.

 

Without putting too fine a point on it; you should be more focused on the aspect of identifying the validity of the sword than the validity of the story. The story, though slightly entertaining, is quite unimportant.

 

I once dealt militaria with a dealer in California. He owned a shop full of interesting things. On the wall hung a US Calvaryman's bugle with cord and tassel. It was damaged with a big dent. On the tag it said "This bugle belonged to one of General Custer's men. The guy that sold it to me said so. You can see the dent where his horse stepped on it". Of course this was tongue in cheek, and it was plainly just an old damaged calvary bugle.

[Nobody]

By the way, I looked at the mei on the blade and have no clue who the smith might be.

The inscription may be 助廣 - Sukehiro.

[blades87]

Thanks for the response, Ted and I totally agree that when acquiring a sword, the focus should be on validating the authenticity of the sword. Since I am always open for discussion in order to learn more about identifying the authenticity of a sword, here is my assessment.

 

- The ha does not appear to have an active hamon. Part of this may be obscured by the polishing wheel that the owner used.

- The condition of the tang appears to have a lot of corrosion, which is obscuring the omote mei and file markings

- The saya doesn't fit the design for Showa period military swords. I do not know enough about civilian mounts during this period to comment.

- The sword and the saya may not be a matched pair. Looking at the picture with the habaki extending out of the saya, the sword may not fit or the paint on the habaki is preventing the sword from sitting properly in the saya.

 

I have some doubts whether this sword was traditionally made. Furthermore, polishing the nagasa with a polishing wheel may have caused irrepairable damage and the sword appears to have been neglected. This sword may be a low to medium quality sword.

 

If there is any flaw in my assessment or there are aspects I have overlooked, please feel free to comment.

 

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As for the story behind the sword, I agree that the story should not be the focus of the assessment. I do, however, believe that a story that appears to be inaccurate compromises the integrity of a seller. While the story of Custer's trumpet is indeed tongue and cheek, it would be a different story if the seller stated that Custer used the trumpet during his march to the sea in the Civil War when he burned everything to the ground. If the story seems a bit far fetched, then how much more is the seller embellishing and how would that affect the price you would pay for an item?

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Final topic: the chance that a Japanese katana ended up in Russian POW camp and the sword being turned over to Allied forces. If there are any World War 2 historians out there, I would be interested in understanding if there are some aspects of my analysis of the story that I may have overlooked.

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Thanks for your comments, Ted and I look forward to discussing the aforementioned topics with the members.

[blades87]

The inscription may be 助廣 - Sukehiro.

 

Wow! Many thanks, Moriyama-san. I am extremely impressed that you were able to identify the mei from those photos. I applaud your efforts!

[Takahashi]

Despite its shape the sword sold for almost 500 $

Isn`t this like gambling since you could not see very much on those pictures?

[blades87]

I would totally agree with you, Robert and I have no idea why that sword went for $500. Funny thing was I also watching a 16th century blade in much nicer condition sit there with no bids at $450. Someone finally bid on the blade for $450.

 

Edo blade (closed listing on eBay) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

 

eBay is a very interesting place to watch bidding transactions on WW2 era Japanese swords. I just don't get it.

[John A Stuart]

It is simple really. There is more interest in WW II militaria, which drives demand and price. John

[blades87]

True, but given the amount of fake stuff on the market, I would think that a collector would want to be able to verify the piece is authentic. Then again, buyers tend to make hasty decisions to invest in something they perceive as valuable and will spare no expense. Cabbage Patch Kids and Beanie Babies are prime examples of buyers spending a lot on items they perceive as valuable and there was limited supply for those items.

 

I guess WW2 era swords fall into that category. If memory serves me correctly, I believe there was an estimated 250K swords brought into the US after WW2.

[John A Stuart]

The higher the demand the more fakes appear. There are pottery mills in China that produce items that even experts can't detect. There was even a luminescence test that was effective at determining age that the professional fakers are now able to replicate. Many high end collectors have spurious Song, Ming etc. pottery in their collections. It is for sale on e-Bay as well. John