Would you knowingly buy a gimei blade?

[KungFooey]

5 minutes ago, Lewis B said:

Nice jiba activity. Gimei Kinju is not hard to find. Here is one you probably saw during your research.

 

https://www.kinghous...l-tanto-gimei-signed

 

Shame it's not for sale, Lewis - I could have got a matched pair! 

[Jacques]

Just now, KungFooey said:

Thank heavens for that Jacques!

For one terrible moment I thought I may have accidentally bought a genuine Kinju! 😉

There is no such thing as a tanto with a nengo. 

[KungFooey]

20 minutes ago, Jacques said:

There is no such thing as a tanto with a nengo. 

Not even these, you little scamp? 😉

[Alex A]

 

Antique Tanto Signed by Sukesada for sale | Samurai Museum Shop

[KungFooey]

Sorry gentlemen, I've run out of reaction emojis for today so, if you say something nice and I don't put a heart, it's not me!

 

PS It's nice to be considered "HOT"!

[Lewis B]

29 minutes ago, Jacques said:

There is no such thing as a tanto with a nengo. 

You should know better.

 

Another example =. Juyo token Rai Kunimitsu tanto dated 1288

 

[KungFooey]

This is my thread guys and I have one, personal request.

Please no downvotes - all views are welcome here (even wrong ones). ❤️

[Shugyosha]

That's lovely blade, congratulations!

[KungFooey]

Just now, Shugyosha said:

That's lovely blade, congratulations!

Thank you John!!!! 😊

[KungFooey]

14 minutes ago, Lewis B said:

You should know better.

 

Another example =. Juyo token Rai Kunimitsu tanto dated 1288

 

Apart from those 😉

[KungFooey]

This is a Google Drive link which was on the seller's listing giving lots more photos for those who are interested. 😊

 

https://drive.google...fN7OgHm3?usp=sharing

[PNSSHOGUN]

If you are buying at Gimei prices and believe the quality of the sword is actually close to the target smith, or exceeds it, all the power to you.
 

 

[KungFooey]

2 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

If you are buying at Gimei prices and believe the quality of the sword is actually close to the target smith, or exceeds it, all the power to you.
 

 

Thanks John.

 

Gimei price? $460 including postage to my bro in Japan - so yes, I believe so.

However, I'd be insane to believe the quality of the blade is actually close to, or exceeds, Kinju. It simply meets my own aesthetic criteria (rudimentary though they are) so I'm very happy. 😊

 

I've read a lot by Guido (including the article you recommended) and he's fantastic!  Really, really knowledgeable and witty! Where is he nowadays?

 

Dee

 

[CSM101]

 

[KungFooey]

Just now, CSM101 said:

 

OMG - I'm so very sorry to read this. 
 

As I've started to find my way around the forum, certain names have stood out as fonts of knowledge and so I've searched for them and then found similar, awful news about several.
Guido was obviously a real character. 😥

[Shugyosha]

 

15 minutes ago, KungFooey said:

Thanks John.

 

Gimei price? $460 including postage to my bro in Japan - so yes, I believe so.

However, I'd be insane to believe the quality of the blade is actually close to, or exceeds, Kinju. It simply meets my own aesthetic criteria (rudimentary though they are) so I'm very happy. 😊

 

I've read a lot by Guido (including the article you recommended) and he's fantastic!  Really, really knowledgeable and witty! Where is he nowadays?

 

Dee

 

 

It's really hard to argue with spending that kind of money for that item. I doubt you could have got a basic shirasaya made for that price and this one is better quality than average so take that and throw in the cost of the polish too and someone is seriously out of pocket on this one. You have to think that they wouldn't have spent that kind of money if they didn't think there was a chance that it would paper as genuine so they must have felt there is some quality there and that shows through in the pictures.

 

There's a lot of nice activity in the blade and you'll gain a lot of knowledge trying to work out who actually made it, so it's a pretty good investment all round I'd say. 

[Alex A]

Agree, nice pick up, especially at that price.

[Jacques]

1 hour ago, Lewis B said:

You should know better.

 

Another example =. Juyo token Rai Kunimitsu tanto dated 1288

 

I spoke about Kinju, no one else.

[KungFooey]

Just now, Shugyosha said:

 

 

It's really hard to argue with spending that kind of money for that item. I doubt you could have got a basic shirasaya made for that price and this one is better quality than average so take that and throw in the cost of the polish too and someone is seriously out of pocket on this one. You have to think that they wouldn't have spent that kind of money if they didn't think there was a chance that it would paper as genuine so they must have felt there is some quality there and that shows through in the pictures.

 

There's a lot of nice activity in the blade and you'll gain a lot of knowledge trying to work out who actually made it, so it's a pretty good investment all round I'd say. 

That's exactly what I thought, John.

 

Someone's spent a lot of money on this blade one way or another and the desire to get rid of it quickly, at that price, suggests a big disappointment at shinsa. They are not a dealer, just a private individual with a 100% rating so I thought it was worth buying. (I nearly said "worth the risk" but it wasn't ever a risk as I wasn't thinking of an investment.)

 

Dee

[Lewis B]

7 minutes ago, Jacques said:

I spoke about Kinju, no one else.

I guess I must have missed the 'Kinju' bit in your post. The statement was still incorrect and misleading. 

[KungFooey]

3 minutes ago, Jacques said:

I spoke about Kinju, no one else.

But these are Kinju. 😉

 

From this website:

SoshuDen-Museum | Mino Kinjū (美濃金重)

 

 

 

[Jacques]

1 hour ago, KungFooey said:

Not even these, you little scamp? 😉

The oshigata from the Kokon Meizukushi taizen is said to be a nidai's tanto and no one has ever seen this tanto.

Official Japanese literature makes no mention whatsoever of tanto  by Kinju with a nengo and authenticated. For me, a blog isn't a reliable source, you can say anything (invoke Heisenberg's principle of indeterminacy about a Norishige tanto, for example). I would add that hamon does not correspond

[Stephen]

Sorry to be long-winded about it but "yes"

[KungFooey]

22 minutes ago, Jacques said:

The oshigata from the Kokon Meizukushi taizen is said to be a nidai's tanto and no one has ever seen this tanto.

Official Japanese literature makes no mention whatsoever of tanto  by Kinju with a nengo and authenticated. For me, a blog isn't a reliable source, you can say anything (invoke Heisenberg's principle of indeterminacy about a Norishige tanto, for example). I would add that hamon does not correspond

I would never presume to invoke Heisenberg's principle of indeterminacy about a Norishige tanto. The energy–time relationship is widely used to relate quantum state lifetime to measured energy widths but its formal derivation is fraught with confusing issues about the nature of time.

[Jacques]

Quote

I would never presume to invoke Heisenberg's principle of indeterminacy about a Norishige tanto. The energy–time relationship is widely used to relate quantum state lifetime to measured energy widths but its formal derivation is fraught with confusing issues about the nature of time.

It's good enough to know Heisenberg's principle, it's not very common. I've checked the author's website. He points out that the shodai probably never put nengo on his nakago.

 

http://www.nihonto-m....com/blog/mino-kinju

[dkirkpatrick]

Can’t argue with the price certainly!  There’s quality and there is “art”.  A beautiful oak chair can have beautiful quarter sawn striping  great style and design, and be shaped just like a Gustav Stickley but if not from that shop it’s just a high quality reproduction even if done somewhat contemporaneously.  Irony is probably a good smith so why didn’t sign their own name, certainly other “unknown”  smiths didn’t feel the need to use gimei?  Interesting questions, anyway nice piece!

 

Doug

[Jussi Ekholm]

So far I have found 6 signed tantō by Kinjū. 2 of them are dated, both share same date of Ōan 2 (1369).

 

However the tantō that was also posted above that is featured in Kantō Hibishō by Kunzan in Tōken Bijutsu 274. I just checked the magazine and I believe in there Kunzan raises questions about the authencity of the mei and date, and states that if genuine it is work of 2nd generation.

 

The 2nd one is in the collection of Kyoto National Museum

https://knmdb.kyohaku.go.jp/29675.html

 

I agree with Jacques that I personally don't consider only old oshigata as very reliable info. They can be very nice supplement but I require modern information to satisfy my data needs.

 

[Deiro]

12 hours ago, KungFooey said:

No koshirae beyond high quality shirasaya but excellent condition and lots of activity.

 

that indeed looks nice from the pictures, I could hardly imagine how it looks in person.

its obviously better of in a shirasaya.

A gimei without a shirasaya but papered koshirae is called a deluxe tsunagi 

[Lewis B]

1 hour ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

So far I have found 6 signed tantō by Kinjū. 2 of them are dated, both share same date of Ōan 2 (1369).

 

However the tantō that was also posted above that is featured in Kantō Hibishō by Kunzan in Tōken Bijutsu 274. I just checked the magazine and I believe in there Kunzan raises questions about the authencity of the mei and date, and states that if genuine it is work of 2nd generation.

 

The 2nd one is in the collection of Kyoto National Museum

https://knmdb.kyohaku.go.jp/29675.html

 

I agree with Jacques that I personally don't consider only old oshigata as very reliable info. They can be very nice supplement but I require modern information to satisfy my data needs.

 

Nice detective work Jussi. And just for continuity, here are the Mei and nengo for the blade in the National Museum. While I generally agree with you Jussi that gimei should be left, I think in this case the kanji could be removed and then have it papered. I'd be curious as to who/school gets the attribution. 

 

 

 

[KungFooey]

1 hour ago, Lewis B said:

Nice detective work Jussi. And just for continuity, here are the Mei and nengo for the blade in the National Museum. While I generally agree with you Jussi that gimei should be left, I think in this case the kanji could be removed and then have it papered. I'd be curious as to who/school gets the attribution. 

 

 

 

Many thanks Lewis!

 

Here are side by sides of mine with the photos you provided.

 

Dee