Is this a Fake?

[lzechman]

     First time poster.  Hello fellow Forumites.  I’m not a collector of nihonto specifically, but I make knives, and collect edged weapons, and had a question about a wakazashi I saw on eBay.  
      I’m curious about this listing, and wondered what anyone’s opinion is about this item.  It has no origami.  Is it real?  If not, why?  Educate me, as I would eventually like to acquire nihonto for my collection, and would prefer something authentic.  

[Stephen]

It is a real Wakizashi 

Perhaps the link would be better than a few screenshot. 

[John C]

Luke:

Is it real as in Japanese? Probably, however you should consider all signatures fake until verified by a shinsa assessment. 

Just a side note: that seller works with a well known seller in the US. They generally sell real stuff, however there will usually be some issue; i.e., gimei signature, ware, etc. Think used car salesman - it's real, but look at the pictures carefully.

 

just my opinion,

John C.

[lzechman]

Full disclosure.  I purchased this wakazashi.  I realize it is out of polish.  I can see some blemished on the blade from the pictures.  I also realize it is not worth having it polished.  I was just looking for something authentic, as in a Japanese made sword, to study.    I would like to get something in better condition in the future, but was just looking to get my feet wet.  I paid $355 after shipping and tax, which is well within my budget.  There was only one other person bidding from what I could see.  Ultimately I would like to figure out more detailed information about age or the area that it was made.   So far I have fed pictures of the signature into AI to see what I could find.   I’ve gotten mixed reviews on this manner.  Thanks for the info.  I may post more pictures once I get it in person. 

[lzechman]

Thanks for the reply. I suppose I should have been more specific.  In your opinion does it look to be real nihonto?  The sale has ended, or I would post a link to the listing.  I purchased this piece.  I can supply pictures when I receive it next month.  
     I’ve gotten mixed reviews concerning the signature.  The seller on eBay said it is a Yoshitsuga.  AI has told me the kanji refers to a region/area in Japan.  
     If it is nihonto, is there anyway to figure out, roughly how old it is.  I’m kind of assuming Edo at this point, but I’m obviously a newbie.  Any information is appretiated, and as I mentioned, I can supply better pictures in the future. 
     Any recommendations on a good dealer in the US that I could work with in the future to purchase a nicer sword?  I prefer tanto over other categories.   

47 minutes ago, Stephen said:

It is a real Wakizashi 

Perhaps the link would be better than a few screenshot. 

[Sansei]

31 minutes ago, lzechman said:

I may post more pictures once I get it in person. 

Good idea Luke. You may get more feedback on the signature and other characteristics of your purchase. At some point if the question of papering (shinsa) and/or polishing is suggested for your sword, you can evaluate the costs involved. Seems like a good starter piece at least.

[Mark]

it looks "real".........  I have "real" nihonto swords that i sell for a few hundred dollars (if you come to SOS next week you will see dozens). They are real nihonto, antique, the blades are at least 150 years old......  but they are priced at what i think they are worth.  If you are asking is it "real" meaning will it get a paper, can i sell it for more, then i think the answer is no.   People have the idea that anything 200+ years old must be valuable and i think this is a mistake.  If you bought that sword i think you would have bought a "real" antique handmade Japanese sword but you will have paid all it is worth today.   If that is what you want you did not miss anything, there are dozens available (probably hundreds or thousands) you just have to have access.  I always prefer to examine a sword in hand before purchasing and would recommend that is you are starting. I have bought swords from pictures but usually from someone i am comfortable with and have recourse if there is an issue. Buyer beware

[lzechman]

Thanks Mark.   I purchased this wakazashi.  I didn’t do so to turn a profit.  I collect edged weapons, and have always been intimidated by nihonto.   I just wanted something authentic.  I may eventually try to purchase a pristine example.  I fancy tanto, and would love to have a nice one someday.  My daughter can sell this one someday when I’m gone.  The price I paid on this one doesn’t concern me much.  I could get a low end Chinese sword for a similar price.  Any interest I have in learning more about this sword, is simply for my own satisfaction.  

[Mark]

Luke - welcome to collecting.  where are you located? There are sword shows in Chicago SF Orlando and Vegas. If you can attend a show you will see more swords in a weekend than you would see in years otherwise. You can see, examine, ask questions. There are usually educational presentations.  If you continue your interest and want to learn try and attend one

[Deiro]

kinda hard seeing the boshi in the pictures, I do see that one was included. Honestly for that price and the fact it comes in a shirasaya it doesn't seem too bad also I don't see any clear rust.

even if it is not the best, you obviously will take good care of it. It does have a ton of ware but I would only cave in if there would be a hagire (crack in the hamon) even at this price range.

[ROKUJURO]

Luke,

it is a WAKIZASHI (not wakazashi), and the signature may be YOSHITSUGU (the pictures are not good enough to read).

I fully understand that you like them, but TANTO may be quite a bit more expensive if in acceptable condition. If I may suggest, buy some good books on Japanese swords first so you better know what you like and what is real.

[lzechman]

9 hours ago, Deiro said: Honestly for that price and the fact it comes in a shirasaya it doesn't seem too bad also I don't see any clear rust.

even if it is not the best, you obviously will take good care of it. 

That’s my intention.  I have a room that is humidity controlled.  I typically check on all my collectibles two or three times a year.  

10 hours ago, Mark said:

Luke - welcome to collecting.  where are you located? 

I’m located in central Pennsylvania.  I’d love to make it to a big show, but those all seem too far for me at this point.   If my interest persists, I may consider it in the future.  I do think there is some kind of militaria show in York PA coming up sometime this year though.  

8 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

it is a WAKIZASHI (not wakazashi), 

Whoops, that’s embarrassing.  I feel like I should know that.   
    Yes, I want to get a few reference books, do you have any specific one that you can recommend?   Preferably something that isn’t very expensive, for a beginner.  
     I see that you are into Celtic culture as well.   I’m currently working on a reproduction falcata. 

[lzechman]

I apologize for my replies to quotes. I’m still getting used to the forum. 

[Mark]

i attend the show in York. There is also a show north or Baltimore next month

[ROKUJURO]

49 minutes ago, lzechman said:

.....     I see that you are into Celtic culture as well.   I’m currently working on a reproduction falcata. 

Hi Luke,

FALCATA are is not related to the Celtic people but to the Iberians in Spain. The Celtic short sword was the template for the Roman GLADIUS.

[lzechman]

1 hour ago, ROKUJURO said:

Hi Luke,

FALCATA are is not related to the Celtic people but to the Iberians in Spain. The Celtic short sword was the template for the Roman GLADIUS.

      Well, that’s not entirely true.  The Celts originated in Central Europe (Germany, Austria, Switzerland), and migrated into Greece, Spain, and yes, into the British Isle.  Although the falcata originated with the Iberians, the Celts living there which formed the Celtiberian culture would have used such swords.  At least they have been found among  Celtibetian archeological sites.  Try googling Celtiberian culture if you want to learn more.  It is still a subject of debate, but the Celts may have migrated into Spain from Central Europe before they headed to the British Isle, but this is still debated.  At the very least, it was around the same time. So they may not have been a Celtic invention, but  they definitely were used by Celts, or at least that is the consensus.  And of course most know the falcata was copied by the Greeks, in the form of a kopis.
     I’ve also reproduced Bronze Age Celtic swords similar to the one that had been found in Ewart Park, in the UK. I even work hardened the edges, as the Celts did.  I attached a photo.  Can’t entirely take credit for that sword though, as Neil Burridge cast the blade for me, but I finished it, did the work hardening, and riveted on the handle.
    Ive also reproduced a few gladius, including two Pompeii and one Fulham, and I’m currently working on a second Fulham, with bone grip, and all.  The earlier Roman swords such as the one in the picture do have a leafed shaped blade, which, as you mentioned was of Celtic influence.  Later Roman swords ditched the leaf shape for easy of construction, as seen in the Pompeii Gladius.  
     
    

[lzechman]

2 hours ago, Mark said:

i attend the show in York. There is also a show north or Baltimore next month

Mark,

   I’m definitely planning to attend that show, and will make it a point to look you up. Maybe I can purchase a sword from you.  I may try to hit the show north of Baltimore too. 

[lzechman]

Here are a few more photos that I’ve taken since I received the wakizashi.  I’m pleased with the purchase.   The habaki fits loosely, but the shirasaya is very nice.  Is there any proper way to fix the loose habaki?    

[ROKUJURO]

30 minutes ago, lzechman said:

..... The habaki fits loosely.... Is there any proper way to fix the loose habaki?    

Only in case it is the original HABAKI: Yes, with a wooden mallet - carefully!