Hostility?

[estcrh]

Seems to be some hostility towards goinglower6969, is there a reason?

[Bugyotsuji]

Well, without going into it too deeply I can make a guess. Some people resent having their brains picked just so someone can make quick money on e-Bay. If everyone started doing this, then what would happen to the integrity of the site? Is this forum for furthering study, or helping people to sell things? Also, and this has happened before, what if it gets to the stage of 'but you said this', or 'you definitely said that... or, "the NMB experts valued this as XYZ".

 

Just my imagination and gut feelings. Ignore as necessary.

[watsonmil]

I don't think it's hostility as much as indignation at the " gall " of those who are in this forum strickly for free appraisal services. The really sad thing is many of the members are allowing themselves to be used, ... and I also note an element of a feeding frenzie amoung some members. The vultures are circling, and that is equally as distasteful. My opinion, .... Ron Watson

[estcrh]

I don't think it's hostility as much as indignation at the " gall " of those who are in this forum strickly for free appraisal services. The really sad thing is many of the members are allowing themselves to be used, ... and I also note an element of a feeding frenzie amoung some members. The vultures are circling, and that is equally as distasteful. My opinion, .... Ron Watson

None of us really know if their advise will to be used used in the selling of the item they are offering their help on, and I really do not care, what comes around goes around. If I have some information that will help someone I will give it, someone will eventually be buying that item and it could be one of us and the more info the seller has the better it is for the eventual buyer. Todd was very forthcoming in telling us his situation. He had these objects dumped on him and he really has no interest in them, it might be hard for some people here to understand but one persons rose is another persons weed. Help him or dont help him, its your choice. As for people wanting to buy his items...whats wrong with that???...Todd just has absolutely NO idea what they are worth.....so he is hesitant to accept an offer. I would feel the same way if I were in his situation. By telling us what he has in advance and selling them on ebay we all have a equal opportunity to purchase some of his things. I just enjoy seeing items like he has as they were purchased in a time when there was no ebay or internet making it easy to by samurai items, and very few places in the world sold these kind of items, you had to track them down and hunt for them, his items are a kind of time capsule. Give the guy a break, and if he does not take our advise dont get sore, he is learning...remember way back when you knew NOTHING about these things yourself?

[Stephen]

None of us really know if their advise will to be used used in the selling of the item they are offering their help on,

 

yes we do.

 

Todd is here for one reasion, its not to learn it to get info oh what he has so he can sell it.

 

Ive always helped he new guy and still will, what he does with the info is up to him.

 

Can tell from your post your new to Nihonto welcome to the wonderful crazy world, put in twenty + years in the field and come back and tell us that its ok because of Grams to split up items that need to stay togheter for the sake of the art.

 

Todd has a calivalire attuide about us, and more or less told me "oh you crazy ol experts"

 

i dont see much respect in his attaude tword the field of Nihonto...just needs values and what items are.

 

We have some high level collectors here, if he was to post them in the for sale sec and was offerd a low ball, then asked us what we thought of the offer,he get alot of its worth much more than that or go for it.

 

Ebay is fast cash and its coming in quick....it will end some day and if he learns that hey i could a got 350 insted of 222...it might come around to him....maybe not.

 

sorry no edit off too the work out....excuse any Sp errors

[sanjuro]

I have watched this post evolve and thus far not posted any replies. The sheer crass commercialism of Todd's attitude quite frankly I find abhorrent. 'Will I get more if I split the items up" really only shines light on the fact that the items apart from their commercial value are meaningless to Todd. The guys on the panel have given hard won and hard learned knowlege to someone who learns nothing from it. I applaud the forumites who have given that knowledge so freely but I shudder at the use to which it is being put and the fact that it will be cast aside when there is nothing left to sell.

There is something faintly disgusting in the scale of these enquiries and knowledge predations.

 

I can only agree with Stephen.

 

 

Just my humble opinion for whatever it may be worth.

[estcrh]

Can tell from your post your new to Nihonto welcome to the wonderful crazy world, put in twenty + years in the field and come back and tell us that its ok because of Grams to split up items that need to stay togheter for the sake of the art.

 

 

So you go from attacking Todd to attacking me? Because I am not mean and vicious? Is that what happens after "twenty+ years in the field". I would think that with your "twenty years+ years in the field" you would realize that for some people the world does not revolve around nihonto, they have no understanding or concept of the history here, Todd is one of them, he did not understand the significance of splitting up matched items, he never said he was here to learn, he was honest and upfront about what he wanted, WOW..a couple of pieces got split up...not the end of the world....it happens every day..I see whole matched suits of armor sold in pieces in Japan by people who KNOW what they are doing. Buy the pieces and re unite them if its that earth shattering to you, I would never split up any matched sets myself and do not like seeing it done, but Todd can do what he wants with his items. I gave Todd advice that he did not listen to and I am not mad at him..why are you?

[goinlower6969]

wow, i cant believe all the hate towards me over asking a few questions,, i came on here to see what things are worth so i could sell them to pay off debt of a family member and you people are just here to critisize what i do wrong or right. Everything i put on here not one person has made me a offer but yet when i sell on ebay you say im going to lose money. Message boards are for the intent to help people understand another item and the concept and value of that.. But i see this page is not about that,, its about downsizing other people because there life doesnt revolve around another persons interest. And STEPHEN i must say you are wrong in where people dont like to be asked questions and learned. My grandfather who had all this amazing items was a teacher in Japanese and he LOVED to teach people about it, even if it was to sell or to learn,each to there own.. But thats fine, i wont post any more pics on here as i see you guys are interested in talking about whats out there, but not what could be bought. And wanna say thanks to Estcrh for the kind words and thanks for all the help. I will continue to deal with you and your open to purchase any item i have...thanks...Todd

[Bruno]

Seems to be some hostility towards goinglower6969, is there a reason?

Seems to be some hostility towards goinglower6969, is there a reason?

 

Yes there is, because he never sign his posts as asked many time :lol: !!!!!

[Stephen]

Its all in how you read it, Like I said and many new guys here will tell you, I've been here to help the newbie, when others more advanced pass the post by. If you take time to know what you have you'd understand its taken years for us to learn, you want it overnight for your sale, its just the lack of respect when I try to give some info and not paid attention too.

Eric I was not attacking anyone, from day one we have asked Todd to take a breath and do some research, like I said if you think I'm the hard ass you liken me too, well you don't know me. Yep the world does not put Nihonto first, but here we do. I hold no ill will to you or Todd, your just being combative to side with Todd.

No one has made a offer out of respect for you not knowing what you have, here we don't just post a pic and expect a offer, we have a thread for sale items, but some research to what you have is expected. I think from what you have posted and been told no one has said

" people don't like to be asked questions and learned" more than a few have helped have they not?

 

I do think it would go along way to pull the f/k auctions and pair them up. then it would show us you have some respect for what we have gone to at length to help.

 

Ill let the Mods do what they want with this, if you have a question ill still help but ill say no more on the board about this.

[estcrh]

I just have some understanding for were Todd is at, what would be a treasure trove for us is a disrupting unpleasant task for him and there are probably a lot of memories involved. Years ago I had the task of selling my parents 40 yr accumulation of art, antiques, jewelry etc, hundreds of pieces that were willed to my sister (thats another story) who could in no way handle the job due to sadness, and she needed the money very badly after caring for both parents until the end while I had a life, I had to stop work for months and try to sell there items that I cared nothing about but were my parents treasure. I had to deal with people pulling at me to sell them things that I had no idea what the value was and researching every one of hundreds of paintings, tools,carvings,furniture, nic nacs etc was overwhelming and time consuming. I wouldnt wish it on anyone......so I just think we should overlook some things under the circumstances. Im trying to be more understanding of peoples flaws in my old age! Im not trying to upset anyone here, I am in awe of the knowledge that is accumulated amount the members.

[leo]

Dear All!

After so many contributed to these 2 threads and 6 Pages i cannot spare you my post. After this some merciful moderator will hopefully terminate this discussion .

 

Todd, nobody hates you, exept if you repeat this about the debts of a family member .

People here on the board like to be sqeezed for information if its done moderately and they eagerly give this info but giving and receiving should be in a balance. If somebody is not sensitive enough to understand, he must be man enough(your username!) to suffer some criticism and not wailing about people hating him. After all this is not Google but a board of collectors and friends of the Nihonto! You are neither one, still members have been very patient with you.

 

Eric, you seem to be a very nice person! Why don´t you open a PM chat with Todd and generously share your knowledge with him what many other already did!

 

Absolutely no bad feelings,

Martin

[cisco-san]

Dear all,

 

please calm down !!! Nobody (sorry Moriyama-san ) is hating some other!!!!

I am still a newbie (and will be a newbie for many years) and I am very happy to be a member of this great NMB. All my questions and requests have been answered and fully fulfilled my expectations.

 

But I think what some people, misunderstand is that this is a forum of "friends" which are Nihonto collectors...... and not a platform for giving just price information. Of course sometime this happened or even will happen in the furture as well). The aim of this forum is NOT to sell swords. The aim is to collect Japanese swords and share information on Nihonto, all Nihonto related things, Japan, Japanese culture....... but again, main focus is NOT to sell!!!!

 

So therefore I think the easiest way for such guys is to put these items (swords....) to eBay and I am quite sure, that he will get the right price If the item is a treasury, the price will be much more higher as if the item is a low quality item.

 

I think it must be allowed to tell this such guys. Otherwise this forum will be "abused" and the overall quality of this forum will getting poor. From my point this great forum lives from "giving and taking" and not only from taking of some people.

 

At this point I have to say, many thanks to this great forum community.

[doug e lewis]

did miss it?? there was hostility? there has been some horse___t, but no more than one usually sees in nihonto postings in any forum.

 

he's selling off his grandfather's estate, people, not making new friends, or trying learn a new hobby. and he came here to this forum, i hope, because he was told the members are knowledgeable, honest (when it comes down to important stuff), and friendly. plus eager to share their knowledge with other members and strangers. [which is an ego thing, in a way]

 

i met some great people here --- though i have yet to meet any of them. Rich Turner, Clive Sinclare, Darcy, Moriyama-san, Peter Farra, Peirs, Jean, Stephen, et al. all have been willing to share their hard earned knowledge with me; and i never owned a sword until i rescued one from my brother's bedroom floor [naked blade, also!!]. a few tsuba, courtesy of my metal restoration friend who introduced me to the beauty of the world of nihonto, and patient teaching of nihonto from my sayashi friend, Mike Vergadamo.

 

but my biggest source of knowledge, especially giving me directions to go for reading and study, has been the Nihonto Message Board.

 

it is sad if Todd is soured by this, IMHO, unnecessary and uncommon rudeness on the NMB.

 

plus i wanted to see the naginatas he might have. not that i can buy them. just bought a new obi which went beyond my tax time budget. but i like to look at pretty, sharp, old metal weapons.

 

i apoligise if i ruffled anybody's feathers or bruised tender egos.

 

hope i don't get shunned for this.

 

doug e

[Brian]

But I think what some people, misunderstand is that this is a forum of "friends" which are Nihonto collectors...... and not a platform for giving just price information. Of course sometime this happened or even will happen in the furture as well). The aim of this forum is NOT to sell swords. The aim is to collect Japanese swords and share information on Nihonto, all Nihonto related things, Japan, Japanese culture....... but again, main focus is NOT to sell!!!!

Haven't had much time to respond to this thread, but this is what it is all about. Our main focus is NOT commercial.

Yes..ppl will assist where possible, and give info sometimes where the main focus is on $'s...but it takes a lot of work to give info, and then to see that info used for a 3 day auction?

 

It has taken a lot for me to decide to keep the "monetary values" aspect that we see in this forum. A lot of forums banned it a long time ago. But I understand that value is inescapable, and hence I tolerate it. But Todd....you can't put up item after item after item and expect ppl to hand out free info every time.

No..ppl are not not hating you or being hostile, it is just the last straw of something that is happening far too often. How many translation requests in that section are for commercial use, and how many are for personal gain?

 

I just want people to appreciate this incredibly valuable resource we have here, not take advantage of the info givers, and make this more about the subject and less about money.

 

I am going to be tightening up on a lot of things soon. Commercial things must be in the correct section, and if motives are found to be misleading, I will be dishing out various actions.

 

I also want to see more appreciation for those assisting.

I have seen a number of people selling items regularly with info from this forum, or using the commercial sections here. And yet so few of them (yes..there are a few wonderful sellers) have shown their thanks by offering a discount or free shipping if a NMB member wins or buys it. Would be a nice gesture and a way of giving back to the forum. Sometimes just a big thanks will suffice. But please don't let it look like the assistance is taken for granted...I see that as a very bad thing.

 

Todd, your decision how to proceed. Some will still offer assistance I am sure. Don't take it personally. Re-read what Stephen and others wrote. There is some good points there.

 

Brian

 

PS - If there was any hostility, perhaps the early indicators of auction shill bidding were the cause? At least that appears to have stopped before eBay took action.

[goinlower6969]

I understand where alot of you are coming from,, but also you have to understand where im coming from.. I have a family member leave me with HUNDREDS of items that she does not want but wants to sell to pay for her familys debt. These items i know absolutely nothing about so i find this web page to help me with info on what items are and what items are worth. Now here is my daily work schedule and you tell me how i have free time to research more.. work 6-6 6 days a week,,planning a wedding that is gonna happen in a few months, along with doing house and family thngs, cooking, cleaning, plowing.. Now im also trying to do NMB as much as i can to get info on items and not sell a 1000 sword for 200, i get 10-15 calls a week of people who are local that some how heard about these items and wanna come down and look threw them and i cant trust just some guy to come in my house and buy things that i know nothing about..I have hundreds of paper work books that he has left me, i have tried to read them but just like you know,, more then half the words in there i have no clue of there meaning so there fore me reading the book gets me no where as well..Sorry if i have came off rude or ask alot of questions, sorry i broke up the set of items which i still cant even prononce,, sorry i didnt take more interest in the items when my grandfather was around.. But this is life,, people make mistakes when there not sure of something,, i cld have a guy come to the house and buy it all and wash my hands,, but im not,, im trying to do what i can to sell items and hope that they go to people who are going to cherish them and not resell them for a huge profit.. I didnt enjoy going to the house and pulling things from the wall to sell,, but i had to do it,, and all i want now is to help her and get his respect as i know these were his prize pieces.......TODD

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Todd,

Against my better judgment (told myself I was done trying to help you after my last post), one final attempt.

I told you in 3 separate posts to NMB that you need help. Unless knowledge of what you have comes to play in the sale of this collection, you won't get a fair price for what you sell. Since you don't have the knowledge yourself, you need someone who does. I sent you an email offering to put you in touch with someone who I consider honest and knowledgeable. Other members of NMB have tried to help also. So far all we see from you is slap dash 3 day ebay auctions. Not only is this a lousy way to sell the collection (on ebay you'll get fair price or better on low to mid level items and 50 cents on the dollar or less for good to great items) but you're now splitting sets that should never be split (bad business for you and terrible for art preservation).

I have no hostility towards you; I don't know you. I'm feeling frustration, however, that you've asked for advice, been offered advice by people who know much more about the subject than you do, and you've chosen to ignore that advice.

I can't force you to follow this advice; that's up to you. But I can tell you that you're costing yourself money and damaging the art your Grandfather collected.

Grey

[drbvac]

I personally didn't see any hostility - I know I didn't care what Todd did or didn't do - in fact Stephen and I just pointed out by the e-bay talk that he may be losing money by splitting up the sets - not my problem if he does or not and I really don't care one way or the other . The fuchi Kashirae "sets" are a hell of a long way from any suit of armour and the difference in the price may have been 10 bucks and no great national treasures are split up.

 

As a forum that is only of any use to anyone with responses, we should all remember if certain questions or posts are not to your liking or what you expect - don't bother taking the time to write - go to another and relax. Life's too short - I attended 3 funerals this week and none of those guys ever cared what was said on this forum.

 

If questions about values upset you or it seems the poster may have funny motives that bother you - ignore it and the advice they get may well be no good anyway!

[b.hennick]

I agree with Brian B. I have not responded to the posts. I have looked at ebay. I was warned off things by the possiblibty of shill bidding. I am not saying that it occurred only that I was put off by the possibility.

I have been an executor of an estate and know that it is a big problem. My solution was to hire professionals. Several have made suggestions to Todd in that regard. He decided not to do what was suggested. His decision, his right.

I too, often get requests for information on swords. Some people are polite and ask others seem to demand. One complained that people wanted to charge him for information. I told him about the time it takes, the money it takes to build a reference library etc. I also suggested he make a donation to relief in Haiti rather than pay me. He decided to do that. Perhaps Todd needs to make a donation to the messageboard for all the info he has received.

One other thing I noted was that Todd has over 2300 ebay transactions under his belt. He is not a newbie on ebay. He knows his way around.

I looked at him as someone who was here to hype his merchandise. I think that his posts should be limited to the for sale or trade section. The other parts of the messageboard are or should be for people who want to learn - to contribute.

[Henry Wilson]

This quote seems to say lot...

 

and you people are just here to critisize what i do wrong or right.

[goinlower6969]

Well one reason i sell on ebay and not deal with people i dont really know is i gave a guy my # off here when i first started and so far i have gotten 23 phone calls in 2 weeks,, thats a little crazy.. and for that it makes it harder and harder to trust anyone...todd

[estcrh]

Todd, if anyone here has a problem giving you HELP because you want to sell your items instead of just putting them on a shelf or in a safe and looking at and holding them tenderly, just send the pics to me and I will help you with research any item I have some knowledge of (except for translations, I really suck at that!). I dont have "twenty+ years" of experience but I do have a "learners permit" will that do? You price them for EBAY and I will bid on any item I have an interest in...I have NO problem bidding against ANYONE and paying a FAIR price or losing to a HIGHER bidder! I cant believe that some people here would make you an offer on an item that they KNOW you have not one clue of its value...shame shame shame! If it were not for you SELLERS there would not be great items for us BUYERS!

[sanjuro]

Eric

 

I say this in as kindly a fashion as I possibly can at such distance. It was your post that raised the question of hostility and stimulated any who had hostility into replying. Prior to that, any who didnt like what was going on had remained quiet. It is your continued and impassioned efforts in defence of Todd, who in fact needed no defending in the first instance, that is perpetuating a discussion that should in real terms never have been necessary. Those that continue to help Todd will do so regardless. It seems that to continue this open discussion will inevitably only escalate the negative responses and reinforce whatever hostility is out there. In the end no opinion will be changed.

 

I dont care to see this forum polarised by being obliged by this discussion to take sides.

[estcrh]

You are feeding what you say you do not like by replying to my post then it seems.

[sanjuro]

It seems come hell or high water that you are determined to pick an argument with anyone who has an opinion contrary to yours. Am I now in the firing line?

 

Read the sentiment as well as the words Eric.

[Ted Tenold]

None of this has anything to do with swords.

 

Everyone go back to studying, or helping, or buying, or selling, or whatever. Keep these forums clear of this silly banter.

 

Locked.