Menuki Hyotan Namazu ("Catching a catfish with a gourd")

[Iaido dude]

I have only one pair of vintage menuki in my collection thus far. It depicts a famous Zen koan (see below) and appears to be shakudo, but is mumei. It's a motif that I hope to collect from depictions in paintings, tsuba, kozuka (Soryu antiques is offering a beautiful one), netsuke, and other Japanese arts/crafts. 

 

 

 

 

 

Josetsu (I can't confirm that this is "the oldest ink painting in Japan."

 

[cluckdaddy76]

I have a very similar pair that must be from the same school. I have always liked this set. Sorry my lighting isn't the best. Only differences I see are that my gourds are a different color and your catfish have a slightly red tone while mine are very close to black.

 

Jason

 

 

 

 

[Iaido dude]

Yes. Quite similar. Just wonderful. I am not experienced with menuki or shakudo. I suspect it is Edo period. I have seen a few Higo tsuba with this depiction, a large variety of netsuke, and of course the superb kazuka (I only have tsuba, no other fittings). There are examples of catfish menuki including modern reproduction, but I've only seen our two pairs that specifically depict this Zen story. 

[cluckdaddy76]

I have been keeping an eye out for a tsuba with the same theme but have not seen one that I felt was good enough quality. I came into the majority of my collection all at once and now that I have studied a bit, I am ready to make purchases. One of my goals is to make themed sets from pieces I really like, and this is one I would love to complete. I have seen kozuka with this theme but have not seen a fuchi/kashira set with it, but I am sure some must exist.

 

Jason

[Iaido dude]

This is the kozuka and menuki being sold as a set (they are likely not an original matching set) by Soryu and from which I borrowed an excellent writeup on the history and meaning of the Zen koan depicted. There is some hope that there is a matching tsuba. I don't collect soft metal tsuba, but putting together a themed collection including netsuke is attractive to me. Jason, if you know of a matching kozuka, do share if you'd like.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255796337621

 

[Iaido dude]

Here are some modern reproductions.

 

 

[cluckdaddy76]

Put a little bit of white on the bottom modern pair and it would look more like an orca than a catfish, some reproductions are just awful  

[cluckdaddy76]

I have seen a couple iron catfish tsuba, bit only soft metal with the entire theme.

[Iaido dude]

“Monkey trying to catch reflection of the moon” is another famous Zen story I have seen depicted on tsuba. The state of unenlightenment is like a monkey who is trying to catch the reflection of the moon in the lake and falls in and drowns.

Jauce (attributed to Shoami)

 

 

Kyoto National Museum (attributed to Shoami)

 

[Iaido dude]

Perhaps the finest depiction is by Kaneie, although I don’t think the one attributed to him below is by the master. 

 

 

Zen master Hakuin often depicted this story with gibbons. I just missed out on winning an auction of one of Hakuin's similar paintings.

 

[Curran]

On 2/12/2025 at 5:49 PM, Iaido dude said:

Yes. Quite similar. Just wonderful. I am not experienced with menuki or shakudo. I suspect it is Edo period. I have seen a few Higo tsuba with this depiction, a large variety of netsuke, and of course the superb kazuka (I only have tsuba, no other fittings). There are examples of catfish menuki including modern reproduction, but I've only seen our two pairs that specifically depict this Zen story. 

 

I confess that I misunderstood this theme for the longest time.

The gourd and catfish menuki are often associated with Higo koshirae, but I don't remember it on to many tsuba other than the Miyamoto Musashi one.

Personally, I love the M. Musashi design of Catfish n Gourd. I think it was on the front of one of the DTI catalogs one year.

 

[cluckdaddy76]

 

I believe Hotei are another legend, I have this mostly iron base example in my collection with this subject. 

 

 

 

 

[Iaido dude]

The incomparable Miyamoto Musashi. Truly incredible tsuba.

 

[Tim Evans]

The theme of moon and monkey is often seen on Niten Ichi Ryu koshirae, but as kodugu not tsuba. The iron moon and monkey tsuba have always puzzled me since they don't look Higo and are normally put into the "Shoami" bucket by the Japanese. Here are some examples of moon and monkey menuki.

 

    

 

 

Also another menuki set in an article by Fred Weissberg, at the bottom. https://nihonto.com/miyamoto-musashi　/

 

And a set of kurikata and soritsuno in another article by Fred. https://nihonto.com/10-1-20/

 

The cult of Musashi has always been strong and continues today. I suspect most of the later Edo period Niten koshirae were commissioned by the Noda-Ha (Kumamoto branch) of Niten Ichi Ryu Hyoho, but also could have been created by the Edo Higo (Kumagai) kinko-shi for members of the two Edo branches of Niten Ichi Ryu Hyoho. 

[Iaido dude]

I’ve been reading a translation of and commentary by five different accomplished martial artists on Musashi’s Dokkudo (The Way of Walking Alone). The conclusion is that during most of Musashi’s life and until he retired from dueling, he was a functional psychopath because he was ruthless, fearless, capable of being and staying mentally focused, and lacking in conscience. He was also a strategic genius as a warrior, originating a fighting school based on his famous two-sword fighting technique (Niten Ichi-Ryu), which I am learning through an international kendo organization.

 

He has been largely canonized and serialized in books, manga, and anime as a “Sword Saint” through works of historical fiction and as an expression of cultural pride. However, by the strict code of Bushido, even he was viewed as monstrous—dishonorable and dangerous—by his father and the famous swordsmen of his time whom he systematically killed starting as a teenager, using guile, psychological warfare tactics, and strategic advantage even before he had any skills. Self-promoting and single-mindedly intent on achieving recognition and position, he was willing and able to do anything and everything to win. 

 

Then we read and admire his writings at the end of his life while in seclusion. And of course we have his paintings, calligraphy, and sword fittings that reveal a different side to this fascinating and complex human person. 

 

https://www.ebay.com...er=artemis&media=SMS

 

[Curran]

23 hours ago, Tim Evans said:

The theme of moon and monkey is often seen on Niten Ichi Ryu koshirae, but as kodugu not tsuba. The iron moon and monkey tsuba have always puzzled me since they don't look Higo and are normally put into the "Shoami" bucket by the Japanese. Here are some examples of moon and monkey menuki.

 

    

 

 

Also another menuki set in an article by Fred Weissberg, at the bottom. https://nihonto.com/miyamoto-musashi　/

 

And a set of kurikata and soritsuno in another article by Fred. https://nihonto.com/10-1-20/

 

The cult of Musashi has always been strong and continues today. I suspect most of the later Edo period Niten koshirae were commissioned by the Noda-Ha (Kumamoto branch) of Niten Ichi Ryu Hyoho, but also could have been created by the Edo Higo (Kumagai) kinko-shi for members of the two Edo branches of Niten Ichi Ryu Hyoho. 

 

Thank you for posting this, and your thoughts on Niten koshirae. 

We all come at this from many different angles, and sometimes your posts make me reconsider what little I feel I know.

I'd seen the Suaka snails recently. Small steps forward in understanding, with a Eureka! moment every now and then.

[moriarty]

3 hours ago, Iaido dude said:

I’ve been reading a translation of and commentary by five different accomplished martial artists on Musashi’s Dokkudo (The Way of Walking Alone). The conclusion is that during most of Musashi’s life and until he retired from dueling, he was a functional psychopath because he was ruthless, fearless, capable of being and staying mentally focused, and lacking in conscience. He was also a strategic genius as a warrior, originating a fighting school based on his famous two-sword fighting technique (Niten Ichi-Ryu), which I am learning through an international kendo organization.

 

He has been largely canonized and serialized in books, manga, and anime as a “Sword Saint” through works of historical fiction and as an expression of cultural pride. However, by the strict code of Bushido, even he was viewed as monstrous—dishonorable and dangerous—by his father and the famous swordsmen of his time whom he systematically killed starting as a teenager, using guile, psychological warfare tactics, and strategic advantage even before he had any skills. Self-promoting and single-mindedly intent on achieving recognition and position, he was willing and able to do anything and everything to win. 

 

Then we read and admire his writings at the end of his life while in seclusion. And of course we have his paintings, calligraphy, and sword fittings that reveal a different side to this fascinating and complex human person. 

 

https://www.ebay.com...er=artemis&media=SMS

 

Greetings Steve,

 

Such a great summary on Musashi's influential life and literary body of work, it's difficult to ascertain how much of his influence can go past us westerners (and perhaps most Japanese) in both martial arts and artistic inspirations. As with anything, I recommend taking most sources about Musashi; including his own works, with a great amount of suspicion. There are very few facts scholars can agree with regarding him, his triumph over the Yoshioka was particularly embellished by later scribes. Good luck in your training, be it the Niten-ryūha or the Niten-do of the federation 

[Iaido dude]

Thanks, Maurice. I’ve never quite known how to consider Musashi’s life and legacy. The modern myth was promulgated by popular historical works of fiction that are entertaining and that remain hugely popular. The truth about the man is, however, difficult to discern. I’m quite used to sustaining ambiguity and ambivalence, so he is not “problematic” in that sense. I learned very early in life not to put people on pedestals and not to hero worship. Lots to study and consider. And that is his gift. 

 

BTW, it is very difficult to find good instructional books/videos of Niten-Ryu Ha. Seems that Niten-do is more widely taught and practiced outside of Japan—even on-line virtual classes. 

[Tim Evans]

On 2/22/2025 at 8:42 AM, Iaido dude said:

BTW, it is very difficult to find good instructional books/videos of Niten-Ryu Ha. Seems that Niten-do is more widely taught and practiced outside of Japan—even on-line virtual classes. 

Niten Ryu is one of the Koryu (traditional martial arts). This is a very deep subject. Unlike Gendai budo, the Koryu are still considered to be closely held martial skills that are not popularized to the public. You will not see much promotion, commercialization, monetization or recruitment by Koryu organizations. To learn more, this site is a good place to start. https://koryu.com/

 

[Iaido dude]

Thanks, Tim. I had that very strong sense that its practitioners are not at all interested in promoting a practice that should only be undertaken by the most sincere and committed student. It is said that novices who hope to train in a zen monastery must demonstrate their sincerity and commitment by meditating outside the monastery gate during winter (well, maybe not in the snow as some say).