John C Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 I picked up a fairly inexpensive kogatana with a hamon (I can see nie under a loupe). It is signed, however it has been polished to death and is unreadable. My question is whether or not age can be determined by the presence of a hamon? Or at least, were there certain eras when water quenched kogatana were more prevalent? Thank you, John C. Quote
The Forest Ninja Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 I suspect water quenching has been going on from the early days. Oil quenching is probably a new phenomena to reduce cracking. Many knifemakers these days use fast oils like Parks 50. I got 2 gallons for knife making. Most Japanese swordsmiths will use water though for quenching. The nicest hamons come from water quenching at a risk of cracking though. Hamon styles are variable among swordsmiths a well. So not sure if You can determine the Era of a blade by it's hamon unless You have more details like a signature 1 Quote
Tohagi Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 😇 looks a little mino sanbon hamon... The meï is Kanemoto? a clear hamon patern is difficult to get on a kogatana (I've tried) so this one is well made... Best regards, Eric Quote
Brian Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 I am not aware of any oil quenched kogatana. I think that all were traditionally water quenched. But some (better quality ones) were clay hardened with a hamon, and many more mass produced ones were through-hardened without a hamon. But I am not aware of oil quenching being a common thing in any antique ones. 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 4 hours ago, The Forest Ninja said: So not sure if You can determine the Era of a blade by it's hamon unless You have more details like a signature Ignore all signatures on kogatana. 99% of the time they are “tribute” ie basically fake and are no indicator of age or anything else. However I’d like to know why this particular widespread practice arose……why put these wrong Mei on these small blades? Anyone? 1 Quote
Brian Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 They were likely regarded as honorific...maybe it was good luck or spiritually beneficial to have the name of an important smith on the kogatana. In other words, ritualistic rather than considering them an actual weapon, which they weren't. 1 Quote
Baka Gaijin Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 Maybe allow the dogsbody to practice cutting signatures...... 2 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 Maybe let the dogsbody actually forge the actual blade as well? Really, would competent smiths spend time making knife blades?? Never thought about that before. Even wonder if there were specialist kogatana makers from whom you could purchase blades and then put any old name on them. Quote
Tohagi Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 I spent some time doing knifes and kogatana with a smith in Japan. It's fast but not easy at all. There are some tips that really impressed me, one was about the way you quench it ... Not at all as I had imagine. 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 28 minutes ago, Tohagi said: one was about the way you quench it ... And…..??.🙂 Quote
Tohagi Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 The quench was given by the mune, alternatively dipping in and out at a rythm... I didn't knew that... The clay patern is like strongly attenuated when turning to hamon, so it is very difficult to have sharp waves. I'll put some pictures back home.... 2 Quote
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