Exclus1ve Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 Have a good time, everyone! Help me determine the authenticity and estimated cost of this set. Thank you in advance! AQNS-owax4z_-dpvGGVaaR5Ny4eOsAtCFOf3vnuoU8RzBD97TTCs3Yne5ogkrpq5NWp2CdoPh-KCl3SoTmex0HfxVTi7f-tYipG0rww.mp4 2 1 Quote
vajo Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 Very nice Soten Tsuba in perfect condition. We don't give here any value price options because collectors want to buy cheap too. For example this Tsuba is much lower qualitiy https://www.zacke.at...-scholars/?lot=73336 Another example https://onlineonly.c...hakudo-tsuba-1/12085 1 Quote
parfaitelumiere Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 this is fake, I give 10$ for the set, address in private! 1 1 Quote
Exclus1ve Posted March 2 Author Report Posted March 2 Thank you all! One of the most beautiful Soten. 2 1 Quote
Exclus1ve Posted March 4 Author Report Posted March 4 This set can also be found in the Sotheby's 2006 catalog. Plot description: Nasu no Yoishi: Atsumori and Kumagai: 2 Quote
Rivkin Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 Well, shakudo Soten are rare, especially daisho; this one is single by its still uncommon. Some argue they are seldom of any association with the Soten himself (at least in this style), but they are great examples of the school. In the US at a show the minimum price will likely be 2,000, maybe 3,000 USD. The top is basically determined by whether you find an interested buyer. I once saw an example which sold for 8k, another for 10k. But I would not be sure these prices are repeatable at ease. 1 Quote
Steves87 Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 I find your example quite interesting from a different perspective... it is the first time I have seen rivets/pins holding the fukerin join together. Obviously a later fix, but I'd love to know how the rivets are connected to the shakudo plate... a "belled" bore with the rivets filling the belled end? Quote
ROKUJURO Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 Viktor, the signature is usually read SOHEISHI NYUDO SOTEN SEI. Authenticity is confirmed by a SHINSA. There is a saying that if you had 100 SOTEN TSUBA on a table, it is likely that all of them are fakes. So buying a SOTEN TSUBA without ORIGAMI is always a big risk. Quote
Exclus1ve Posted March 4 Author Report Posted March 4 Who verifies the authenticity of lots at Sotheby’s? So, in this case, there is no need for origami? Quote
ROKUJURO Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 Every owner decides for himself if he needs/would like certification papers. Auction houses do not own the items, and they sometimes do not care for the authenticity. Quote
Exclus1ve Posted March 4 Author Report Posted March 4 I've been searching for any information about Soten Tsuba for 2 weeks. If we consider the small details and the overall workmanship, then this set does not arouse any suspicion of authenticity. I compared a lot of Soten photos. I'm not an expert, and these are just my observations. Quote
Rivkin Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 Depends on what kind of authenticity is desired. The founder's work - unlikely. Higher end school's work - probably yes. Sothebies considered circa 1875 which is Meiji, so their belief is its even after-school imitation. 1 Quote
Exclus1ve Posted March 5 Author Report Posted March 5 Interesting. I found a tsuba, the workmanship is very similar. What do you say? https://www.touken-w...rd-guard/art0001632/ Quote
Exclus1ve Posted March 5 Author Report Posted March 5 For comparison. There are more Soten photos in high quality on this website. Quote
Curran Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 17 hours ago, Rivkin said: Depends on what kind of authenticity is desired. The founder's work - unlikely. Higher end school's work - probably yes. Sothebies considered circa 1875 which is Meiji, so their belief is its even after-school imitation. Rivkin's post = my own thoughts. Even studying tsuba for 25+ years, Soten is one of the schools I know less. I've seen maybe >1000 and would say this is one of the nicer ones. Even with my experience, I'd hesitate to offer an opinion on the signatures. Soethebies does only a minimum amount to vet a signature. They do try a bit... but not a lot. Take their opinion very loosely. As to value- probably take what they sold for in 2006 and discount it a small bit. Soten tsuba have not held nor raised (nor dropped) in value as much as some other schools. 1 1 Quote
Exclus1ve Posted March 5 Author Report Posted March 5 I am inclined to assume that this is the work of one master or one school. Most likely it was made to order, having the first copy in hand, because the Edo masters didn't have an internet with photos) https://www.touken-w...rd-guard/art0001632/ The first tsuba is kept in the Nagoya Sword Musuem. The second one is mine. Quote
Exclus1ve Posted March 5 Author Report Posted March 5 With such similarities in the level of work, even a negative SHINSA result will not give you peace of mind)) Maybe it was originally daisho? Quote
zanilu Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 The discussed daisho is for sure an above average example. The Soten school at a certain point in time was so popular that other workshops in Kyoto and Nagoya (citing from memory) started to produce pieces in the style, or so it seems from the common lore. Some signed as soten others mumei with a large variation of quality, from very crude to high quality. Tsuba from the school proper (first, second and maybe third generation) are extremely rare. Most of example we see are at best "in the style of" from other workshops. I have by now amassed a database of a hundred referenced pieces. NBTHK papers are basically useless they seems to only certify thet a tsuba is not a modern fake, no information is given about anything. Also from mei comparison no conclusion either, the variation is staggering. It is a mess... Regards Luca 2 Quote
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